HOME | DD

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Ymrabelle [2020-04-03 10:32:19 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! Very interesting to read your critique. About the fire, it was originally running down his legs but I then realized pretty late in the process that it might look as if he was peeing the fire and I wanted to avoid that so I changed the way it flowed. I guess it ended up looking a little unnatural as a result.
Including the arrows of Apollon is an awesome idea! I should have done that but didn't think of it.
And yeah, I guess those sun-rays just don't work... the texture is too different. Well, live and learn. Thanks again, this is very helpful!

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

Ymrabelle In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-04-03 11:48:07 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Ymrabelle [2020-04-03 11:55:14 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! I've had too many UTIs in my life to find the thought of peeing fire appealing though since I know the feeling

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Ymrabelle In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-04-03 11:57:56 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-02 16:03:24 +0000 UTC]

Hi! Now this is quite an interesting critique. Most of the critiques I got so far focused more on "technical" issues such as lighting. Whereas you really thought about the symbolism and the meaning behind this picture, so thanks for that!

However, the green/blue smoke and the remnants of ancients ruins are just there for the aesthetic. I actually thought about adding all kinds of symbolic stuff at first, trash lying on the ground and a broken down temple to symbolize how the ancients gods are forgotten by most but they (or the powers they represent) are still as alive and relevant as they always were. I wanted people pouring water on the fire in ways that would remind the viewer of libations being poured to deities as sacrifice. One of the big inspirations for my art is the tarot, so I really admire pictures that have layers of meaning that you can think about for a long time.

But a voice in my head said, as it often does these days, "keep it simple, s...sugar." It's been my experience that when I add too much symbolism, make my work too conceptual, nobody gets it and I sacrifice aesthetic appeal for content that goes unappreciated. All the trash and bustling people would have made the picture crowded and modern cities are ugly to me. So these days I try to find a balance between form and content that lets me make a statement and still allows my art to look nice. If everybody thought about the elements of a picture as deeply as you do, I would certainly go about this differently and maybe eventually I will be good enough at this to make every element in my picture carry symbolic meaning and still look good, but for now it's a process. I was indeed thinking particularly about the fires in Australia with the forest fires in the background (though I have no doubt that we'll get some in Europe this summer again too), so there you saw the symbolism quite rightly.

About the "having it coming" thing, well I'm not sure. As an environmental activist I can't stop hoping that we'll manage to replace the insanely destructive system we live in with something more sustainable so we don't have to die out, but I don't see a lot of initiatives these days that go far enough and those that do are very marginalized. That's on my mind a lot and something like trash on a statue like the one above just seems to emphasize even more how totally devoid of respect many people are.

Edit: Ohh you mean the things in the sky with "four pillars", no those are stylized sun rays! They're supposed to emphasize him being a sun god. In the past people have been very confused by me mixing solar themes with a black sky, so I thought the rays would make it more obvious lol. But maybe such a surreal design (after all sun rays don't actually have that kind of texture) doesn't fit with a more or less realistic looking scene... ugh see this is why I can't be trusted with more complex symbolism, I'm still trying to translate my internal world into something that can be represented and understood

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Fresh-Minty In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-02 22:15:43 +0000 UTC]

Hey, thank you for answering to my comment.

I am not sure the idea about people pouring water on the water would have been a good reminder of libation or sacrifice. I can be wrong, of course, but I believe it'd just have been taken as people trying to solve the problem with their feeble means as humans can't compare to a god's supposed ability to solve issue. Either that or to show that man can't counter a god's will if said god had decided it has had enough with humans' stupidity (it may just be my interpretation though). Maybe having those humans pouring water on the statue and bigger water jet being poured from above to the fire would have made it clearer? Not sure, just a supposition here.

I understand your concern regarding the fact that adding too much trash and/or people would have the picture look crowded, though here, it doesn't seem to show as much as what you'd like (only my opinion here, of course), as there isn't enough trash (ironically) to show what we are doing to the planet. Perhaps that if some trash were visible through the fire, or at the feet (or even on the statue, as you witnessed), it'd make the offense to Apollo more obvious?

I am not an environmentalist activist, at least, not as much as I'd like to be. I try to do my part, but I won't fool myself. Citizens aren't those who pollute the most, no matter what government (at least mine) try to say to make us feel guilty (and tax people), companies are the one responsible for it. Yet those always find way to get out of their responsibilities regarding environment protection. I do wish people would take a better care of the nature that had been left to us. Sometimes I fear it's too late though. We're much too selfish and those who aren't in that regards aren't (powerful) enough.

About the edit: I see what those are meant to represent, though, no offence meant, but maybe those 'rays' are too much? I already thought the two halos were here to show him as the sun god. Or perhaps the texture you chose was too symbolic for me? It it had looked more like actual ray of light I'd not have wondered about their meaning? ^^' You aren't responsible for my lack of understanding symbolism

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-03 12:14:23 +0000 UTC]

I think a jet of water would have made the humans seem pretty powerful, after all a too strong water jet can even topple a statue. It would have been important for the internal consistency of the picture that the water is not enough to change anything.

What you say about adding some burning trash would go well with what you wrote earlier about the greenish fog next to Apollon's head being a reference to his healing powers. If his fire also burns the trash, it could be seen as a fever that serves to burn that which harms the planet and is therefore healing in the end. After all, imagine if we had the current system but no climate change. We'd still have species dying out left and right, rivers being poisoned, the forests everywhere being cut down - climate change is just one of many environmental problems but it's the one that causes the most problems for humans and can't be ignored. If rivers are poisoned, humans still have water filters. If wildlife dies out, humans still have cattle to eat. If forests are cut down, humans still have monoculture tree farms. But there's no escape from climate change.

But if I made such a picture, you and I and 2 other people would think about the cool symbolism and everyone else would be like "ew there's trash in the picture I'm not looking at this". Or if I had added the libation thing, "is the statue being washed? I'm don't want to look at the cleaning lady doing her job". Maybe I'm being elitist or too cynical here, but that's my impression. I just try to keep the symbolism simple and obvious for now. It's not technically my responsibility to make sure people understand my use of symbolism, sure, but if I want my art to be understood, then I have to do my best to make it comprehensible anyway. So you telling me what you find confusing about the symbolism is very valuable because after all I'm trying to communicate using art. If I didn't want it to be understood, I wouldn't publish it

I agree about corporations and the governments that serve them while putting all responsibility on powerless individuals being the real problem, that's why environmentalism has to be about organized resistance. Unfortunately mainstream environmentalism focuses on just consumer choice and asking those in power to please be a little less destructive, which is never going to work. I'm more interested in the more radical analysis by organizations like Stop Fossil Fuels for example. I think a lot about how human psychology can help or hinder the changes we have to make but it's a difficult problem for sure.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Fresh-Minty In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-03 15:01:34 +0000 UTC]

I may have used a wrong word (not English speaking native). I didn't mean a jet of water the kind fire-fighter use that is indeed powerful enough to quench a (forest) fire. No, more... like someone just throwing a bucket of water to the flame and hoping it'd work. That's why I meant that it'd not have been a good idea. Quoting you

"I wanted people pouring water on the fire in ways that would remind the viewer of libations being poured to deities as sacrifice" <= That's what I was refering to when I said it may not have been a good idea to have it on your picture. As I said, I'd have interpreted it as people trying to deal with the situation themselves with their feeble ways and not counting on a more powerful being to help them. On the other hand, if those same people have been offering their water to the god (perhaps not pouring it on the statue, if you believe people would confuse it with cleaning people doing their job - though to me, there is a difference in what a cleaning person do and what priests do...) and from the statue came jets of water to extinguish the fire, perhaps it'd have conveyed what you want? I am not good at symbolism as you have seen, so am only suggesting.
And you may be underestimating people. Sure there are some who will only take the picture as what it is, however other (and more than just you, me and 2 other, I am sure) will indeed look for symbolism and what you really wanted to say with it. They might come up with their own interpretation, but that's what comment are for: to discuss it.

I believe one of the major issue is that we are selfish. When something takes bigger proportion, lots of people lose what they aimed for at first and just go for the fame. And if they don't (I know it happens) then people will "annex" themselves to whatever this person is doing just to fulfill their own agenda. Like what happened for Greta Thunberg. I followed that story from far, but from what I saw, even if her protest at the start was sincere, I doubt one can say it is now. Besides, I haven't seen her doing much to reduce pollution (I heard she travelled to the US on a ship instead of flying there, but the sponsors were far from being environment friendly) and aside from crying in front of government, begging them to change, I can't say she really gives solution, does she?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-04 14:55:10 +0000 UTC]

Well based on the critiques I got so far, many people don't even seem to read the description of the picture, so I'm not sure my estimation is too far off... but maybe in the long run my use of symbolism will organically become more complex as my ability to communicate in images grows. There are photomanipulators (and other artists of course) who can say quite a lot with a simple and elegant picture that doesn't even have a lot going on in it. Look at Comfort Zone for example - I think it would be hard to misunderstand this picture. The use of a greenhouse to symbolize a comfort zone is just brilliant.

I haven't been following Greta Thunberg all that closely, but I do think she's sincere in her intention. Why do you think she isn't? Or do you mean her sponsors? But you're right that she doesn't propose a concrete alternative. She expresses the anger that many feel and that's cathartic to people but it doesn't solve the problem. Unfortunately the kind of resistance that was the norm throughout much of history - building up alternatives and actively working to dismantle the oppressive system - is unthinkable to most today because we're so used to the way things are. Francis Fukuyama called the end of the Soviet Union "the end of history" because the only alternate system that was still in place collapsed and that's what it feels like we live in now - a global capitalist system that will stay in place until the world ends. In that context, begging the government to do something differently seems like the only option.

Human selfishness doesn't have to be a bad thing, it all depends on the incentive structures in place. I think it's pointless to try to change something so fundamental about people. Many indigenous peoples set up ingenious systems that make sure those people who *give* the most - not those who *have* the most - are seen as the most respectable members of society. In this way selfishness serves the community. The problem we have in this culture with people ruining the common good out of selfishness is entirely due to our culture rewarding antisocial behaviour. I see what you mean though by connecting selfishness to fame, it's easy in our age of mass media spectacle and PR campaigns to seem charitable without actually being that way. The indigenous cultures I mentioned all work with a local context in which the effects of everyone's actions are immediately visible. How do we create the right incentives for a working environmental movement? I'm not entirely sure. It would be difficult today to just ignore the media, have no famous "leaders" and focus entirely on the local.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Fresh-Minty In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-04 17:29:06 +0000 UTC]

Hm... Sincerelly, from the picture, even though it undoubtly is well talentently done, I feel more the 'trapped' part than the 'comfort' part. It vary from people to people, but I don't think I'd feel all that at ease in a greenhouse, personaly. I am more one to enjoy wide space like forest and field. Hadn't I read the description, I'd have thought that the girl was just trapped there, not that it was also her comfort zone.

Regarding Greta, I haven't really followed her either, just from afar. I believe what is really bothering me is the publicity around her. She may have started her protest as something she genuinely feel, but as soon as social media and journalists are involved, I fear that it removes every ounces of genuinety there might have been in her movement. The fact that her parents are also well known in their country doesn't help either.
Also, even if she is expressing anger, I doubt it really help. Being angry never solved anything and yelling at someone isn't going to change anything, especially if that person is hardly more than a teenager without much knowledge in that field. Besides, as much as I don't like (my) government (here is almost a dictature to be honest), I don't think it's their role to find a solution. Scientists are those who should find a way and propose it to the government (and I mean a real environment friendly solution, not the solar panel/electric car ones who are environment friendly here, but pollution source in the countries they are made) and then the government has to enforce it.
In my opinion, even though what Greta is doing can be considered commandable, I'd believe it more useful (and it'd actually show she cares about the environment as she claims to) if she went back to school and started focusing on being a researcher in that area.

Now, as I said, we are selfish, and we certainly aren't ready to give up on what new technology allowed us to (I know I'd have a hard time not going on my computer or using it to communicate). We always look for the easiest way to feel good about ourselves regardless of how other are feeling. Consumerism had us rotten to the core. I know people (and I was one of them once) who go buy stuff they don't need only for a thread of happiness that won't last. In some culture, it may have been possible to turn this selfishness around and use it for the greater good of the community, however I doubt it really work on a larger scale.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-05 18:37:36 +0000 UTC]

Huh, okay, I thought the two-sidedness of the greenhouse was really obvious and well-chosen, but maybe the artist and I just have similar idiosyncrasies...

I think getting angry is an indispensable first step in solving problems of the kind she is facing, actually but of course what matters is what is done with that anger. I don't think at all that what Greta needs to do is go back to school, become a researcher... because the science on the topic of climate change is in, we have heaps of scientific opinions on what should be done and at this point insisting that more research is necessary before action can be taken is an unacceptable delay. In fact, it's the people who make money by pretending not to believe in climate change who are telling Greta to become a scientist the loudest because they are uncomfortable with the commotion she and other young people are making. I'm not saying that's your reason for saying that of course, just that this is the effect it has. Governments aren't listening to the scientists. I would count on them even less than I would on the good will of common people. We have to take things in our own hands and I hope FFF can maybe be a stepping stone to radicalize some young people who will do something more than just protest. We urgently need to build up local alternatives and do whatever is necessary to stop environmental destruction.

I mean, the very least any government would do that is interested in environmental production is to try to decrease consumption, but not even that is happening. You don't need to be a scientific genius to realize that that's necessary.  So I don't buy the "more research is needed" argument. It only benefits the status quo.

I would really recommend stopfossilfuels.org/ as a starting point for a strategy that might actually work when it comes to stopping climate change. Unfortunately, as I said, that kind of analysis is pretty marginalized at the moment and just unthinkable to most... but we urgently need to think it anyway.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Fresh-Minty In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-05 18:56:29 +0000 UTC]

I disagree. I don't think getting angry will do anything, especially if you don't offer any solution. Which is what Greta is (or isn't) doing. Besides, I don't know how it is in your country, but here, we don't hear of her at all. She had talked before some of the French ministers and members of parliament (conveniently, the same day an important debate should have been taking place), and from then, nothing. 

Moreover, the fact she is a child may also be an hindrance. Those in power humor her, listen to her and that's about the extend of it. Don't get me wrong, she may be sincere in what she does, the other children with her may be sincere as well, yet I don't think anything they're doing have really any impact. Which is why I said she should go back to school, so she can learn and devise a solution and have some more weigh to her argumentation. 

Saying she should become a scientist/researcher isn't something bad to wish to her, regardless who wish her to. As I said, scientists are right to say that something wrong is going on, but they are also the best placed to find a way to get it right, a way that would be both in the interest of the planet and in the interest of the politician (it pained me to write that, trust me, yet I know that for most of those in power, if they don't see how they can get anything out of anything, they simply won't care about it and won't enforce it)

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-05 20:22:01 +0000 UTC]

Well, it's not her fault that she's young. Honestly, I'm in my early 30s and I still get older people talking down to me and not taking me seriously sometimes and by the time Greta is my age it might be too late to do anything. In my experience, if someone doesn't want to take you seriously, they always find an excuse. If it's not age, it's tone of speech, or you dress the wrong way or (if it's online) you use too many emoticons... I mean the EU establishment also managed to ridicule and ignore Yanis Varoufakis when he tried to reform their financial policies, and he's a male professor of economics in his 40s (or 50?) who was minister of finance of his country at the time. You can have the best arguments in the world, if you're arguing against people who have more power and they don't want to listen, they won't. If anything it's Greta who's wasting her time trying to persuade those who will always find an excuse not to listen.

And as I said before, those politicians don't listen to scientists. They just don't. The political system is so dominated by corporate interests that governments simply can't afford to go up against them, which they would have to. A solution that is good for both the climate AND for those politicians is impossible, which is why, as I said, we can't rely on them.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Fresh-Minty In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-05 20:30:37 +0000 UTC]

what would be the solution then? No offence, but we're running in circle there. Greta, for all the good she means, isn't doing much in itself and hadn't got much result (or I don't think she had. Hadn't heard anything hinting she had managed to actually get something from government). From what you say, scientists and researchers aren't listened to by governments and corporation. What is left to do then? Even if we were to replace current governments by other that would (claim to) be more environment friendly, I believe it's just a matter a time until they go back to what the previous government did.
What solution is left then?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Fresh-Minty [2020-02-05 20:43:30 +0000 UTC]

As I've said, "We have to take things in our own hands and I hope FFF can maybe be a stepping stone to radicalize some young people who will do something more than just protest. We urgently need to build up local alternatives and do whatever is necessary to stop environmental destruction. I would really recommend stopfossilfuels.org/ as a starting point for a strategy that might actually work when it comes to stopping climate change. Unfortunately, as I said, that kind of analysis is pretty marginalized at the moment and just unthinkable to most... but we urgently need to think it anyway."

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Burke23 [2020-02-01 14:07:55 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Burke23 In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-01 19:37:21 +0000 UTC]

You’re welcome

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to ElliaAutismo [2020-02-01 14:04:29 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! Just start practicing and experimenting, I found that the ideas one has grow with the skill and experience one accumulates. Making something like this wouldn't even have occurred to me two years ago.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to AutisticWerehog [2020-02-01 14:02:39 +0000 UTC]

Thank you <3 that's a big compliment and very kind of you to say. It seems you understand the picture the way I intended it and that makes me happy.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AutisticWerehog In reply to Eye-of-Tichodroma [2020-02-01 14:08:41 +0000 UTC]

No problem... all in the days work from ProjectComment... :3    

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to Null-Entity [2020-01-26 12:41:39 +0000 UTC]

Some men just want to watch the world burn

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to SireneArcana [2020-01-25 15:43:31 +0000 UTC]

Thank you <3

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eye-of-Tichodroma In reply to EgoDoll [2020-01-25 10:07:15 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! I nearly named this "Sol Invictus" actually but decided on an English title in the end

👍: 0 ⏩: 0