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ViktorMatiesen β The Joker's Reaction
#dccomics #fanart #joker #jokerbatman
Published: 2015-07-21 10:25:11 +0000 UTC; Views: 15325; Favourites: 205; Downloads: 10
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Much like with the Harley Quinn picture I made about... Three years ago? Holy crap. Any, the fanart I made with Harley Quinn here fav.me/d4xisbc , has made quite the reaction with faves, comments arguing or agreeing with my statements about how I feel about the poor girl's status in her comics these days but this one will create a huge flame war with arguments and such that it will be a controversial picture. But this is something I need to say, and if this will make me a new Tom Preston then so be it.Allow me to share a revelation I've recently had. For all the praises and admiration for being the best supervillain in DC Comic's history, The Joker has become the lamest and dullest villain in Batman's entire rogue gallery.
I'm sure that you already are writing down comments arguing about what I just said and ignore what I am about to explain the reason WHY I feel like this villain whom I used to like, is nothing special or unique anymore and is compared to other lame psychotic super villains like Victor Zsasz or Professor Pyg who are just there to provoke readers. But first a little history...
Now ignoring the fact that it now has been proven that Bob Kane had almost NOTHING to do with creating the supervillain that would become one of the most iconic super villains despite the fact that he was inspired/ripped off from other heroes like Zorro, The Shadow, Dick Tracy and some other pulp fiction heroes from novels and comics that were before hand. Hell, it has been proven that one of the first comics featuring Batman was a traced copy of a Dick Tracy comic but thats beside the point. My point being was that while Batman was a superhero in all definition but in reality it was more like if Dick Tracy decided to become a masked vigilante and fight mobsters and gangsters.
And looking back at it, it all makes sense. Like Dick Tracy, Batman had a cast of colorful villains and gangsters with unique looks at gimmicks. Hell, Two-Face was a direct ripoff of a Dick Tracy gangster called Haf-and-Haf whose half of his body was burnt and melted in a pool of acid and chemicals, making his wear a costume that had different looks and color on each side. While the whole ripoff thing was pretty standard in those days, its more amazing that how people forget these sort of stunts they pulled.
Which brings me to the Joker, while his design and character was more unique that he was inspired by the joker playing card and the 1928 horror drama silent movie "The Man Who Laughed", The Joker during the Golden Age of superhero comics was a serial killer using Joker Venom to make die with laughter. Sounds just like what he is these days, but during the Silver Age of comics when gore and violence depicted in comics were banned, comics writers and artists decided to make him more of a gangster or a mobster whose gimmick were creating elaborate and goofy but mostly comical methods to commit robbery and such. That in many ways, became the inspirational source for the goofy 1960s TV show "Batman".
Ceasar Romero's comical depiction of the super villain was the first version of the Joker I encountered as a kid and while he was a dangerous criminal, he was just a clown who had a lot of fun doing what he did. Always giddy and laughing excitedly as he committed robbery in elaborate and goofy ways using laughing gas to knock out guards and civilians because as a comedian and a clown, The Joker wanted to perform and make people laugh. Whenever I saw this joker, I always smiled because he was so much fun to watch at the time.
While I did read some Batman comics and saw the Scooby Doo crossover episodes with Batman where The Joker would have a lot of fun just scaring the pants of Shaggy and Scooby, it wasn't until the 90s where I would become exposed to the one animated show that pretty much changed Saturday morning cartoons forever for better or worse: Batman The Animated Series.
It would take a much longer time to find a person who didn't like this marvelously and awesomely made animated show, combing the dark and gothic looks and feels of the batman comics and the goofy and campy attitude of the silver age comics and the 1960s live action show. It was also the show that pretty much changed the origins for most members of Batman's rogue gallery, like how Mr Freeze became a Shakespearian tragic character who longed to be warm and able to feel again but only coldly sought for revenge (pun intented) or Two Face who is actually Bruce Wayne's best friend but loathes Batman. That was what made the animated show so unique, they made the villains more human than monsters and villains. One of my all time favorite episode involves The Joker, Penguin, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc and Two Face just hanging around like friends, bickering and bantering and just had a good time while playing poker and discusses their own stories of how they almost killed Batman and had the most funniest moment involving Killer Croc and a big rock.
And Joker himself, while he was a lethal criminal who left devastation and destruction behind and quite possibly several wounded or dead, he was never into genocide. Yeah, I KNOW that he killed a guy in "The Mask of The Phantasm" but the dude was old and was annoying The Joker and he just wanted a bait and decided to get rid of him. He was a clown, and a comedian and what better way for a comedian to have a crowd and attention. That is why he created elaborate and creative ways to commit crimes, robberies and ways to defeat Batman. In a Christmas episode, The Joker was thrilled as he would hold a TV studio hostage and just had lot of fun hosting his own TV show while trolling on Batman and Robin.
But sadly, this may have been the downfall for the Joker as well.
Maybe it was because of the comics, but the Joker started to develop into his Golden Age version, a psychotic villain who wanted to destroy and kill, abused Harley Quinn more and more, and needless to say good times became dark times all around. Watch the movie "The Return of the Joker" and you see what I mean by that.Β
And it pretty went down hill from there, the movies, the comics, the games and especially The New 52 reboot made The Joker into a... well basically a Slasher Movie killer. While that may be approved to most fans, I am not no longer a fan of this. What is the point, really? The Joker was fun and chaotic but he was never into genocide and such. He just wanted to pull dangerously pranks on people and laugh at them. But instead, he became more and more lame and dull just as all other members in Batman's rogue gallery, a gang of serial killers and psychos instead of being criminal gangsters and actually HUMAN villains.
In fact and I am putting SPOILER ALERT here, at the end of Batman Arkham City when The Joker dies to the Venom toxin he overdosed of in Batman Arkham Asylum, I was happy. Yeah, I was happy that he finally was dead. I didn't care what people said, I was thrilled and happy that the most insane psycho finally kicked the bucket and passed on. Hell, I was even happy to see The Joker die in The Return of the Joker... TWICE in fact. And while I haven't played Batman Arkham Knight, I am excited to see to see a Gotham free from The Joker and deal with... the other insane genocidal maniacs that roams free in the city... cripes...
And that is what they should have done a LONG time ago, kill of the Joker. Yeah, I went there, kill The Joker so that we can be free from his clutches. But no, everytime someone plans for it there is ALWAYS gonna be cries from fans that the Joker should be around and kept because he is the demigod of chaos and evil, a perfect balance against Batman who quite frankly is pulling of that one himself considering how paranoid and anti social he has become in later years in comics and TV shows. Seriously, Batman The Brave and The Bold brought back a lot of his humanity, I don't care how many people hated it, I fucking loved that show because I was HAPPY to see Batman being badass and not just gloomy and emo and what now.
Which brings me to another revelation that pretty much made me loose faith in humanity greatly: Fans don't want to kill the Joker... because we secretly love evil people.
We as humans keep claiming how much we hate Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, bin Ladin, al-Zawahiri, Putin and other dictators through history, or serial killers like Jack the Ripper, The Zodiac Killer, Charlie Mansion and so on, but in reality we can't help to be pulled in and fascinated by their evil personalities. Hell, we all remember and know Lee Harvey Oswald but we don't know the ones who actually find him and caught him. We have forgotten the good guys who have fought these tyrants and avatars of evil, because we simply don't care. We only care of the evil capabilities of these people. We thrive in them, addicted like a drug. Evil makes money, we keep making several versions of movies depicting Ted Bundy or Ed Gein, creating popular horror movie franchise because lord knows that good guys can never make much money.
Or maybe the comic writers are just lazy and doesn't want to kill Joker because the character has a history and who has the strength to come up with a new and quite possibly BETTER villain, I dunno... Either way, this is why I have stopped reading DC comics these days.
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You are not wrong. XD
Ah, the differing writing styles of these comic writers........
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He did, didn't he?
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Remember when you used to be a psychotic killer who murdered untold hundreds of innocent people for no reason? Oh wait, you always have been. So you're still a piece of garbage.
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I haven't made a comment in a while. Here goes.
The 60s version of Batman was the first one I saw as well. And damn it, it may be cheesy, but it's still good. At the same time, I do like the modern portrayal of the Joker, writing him as an utter psychopath with nothing redeemable about him. Don't worry, I'm not going to bash you. I think you've made a very valid point. Personally, I don't think comics should be completely silly and campy, but they also shouldn't be grimdark blood baths where there's no hope on either side. I sort of take a mid level to things. There needs to be a balance between light and dark int he medium. Unfortunately, the New 52 (which ruined pretty much everybody in DC, not just the Joker and Batman) goes beyond anything tasteful and just derails everything, kind of like how Mr. Freeze is no longer a tragic, lonely intellectual who wants his wife back and has been reduced to a lust obsessed stalker. I wonder: Is DC secretly ashamed of the Adam West Batman? Part of it is that people are fascinated by monsters, that is true. However, another part of me wonders how much of it is DC going, "See? We're for adults now! We're not like the 60s anymore!" without knowing how to really write for adults. Edge lord content and all that.
I definitely agree. We are fascinated by monsters such as Bundy and Hitler. However, do we all literally love them and their ideas? There are groups and individuals who do. Communists, nazis, anti intellectuals, all sorts. Do we ALL love them, though? I know humans are flawed. I wouldn't go so far as to say we all love sick stuff. I said this in one of my reviews: We don't literally love monsters. Instead, it's this thing as old as Man called Bile Fascination. We are drawn to taboo subjects such as rape, murder, torture and genocide because it provides us with a thrill. Mind you, I said 'thrill' not 'joy'. Even if we are repulsed by what we see and hear, we are charged with a fearful adrenaline that is in essence an emotional high. And a lot of us want that high more than once. That's the core of Bile Fascination: We love feeling a rush, even a negative one, because it is so intense. Our thoughts race, our blood pumps, and we react faster.
But there is something that should give you a little hope: Even the most masochistic people who live by Bile Fascination have at least one line they won't cross. For example, if I told a joke about Ted Bundy or Hitler, a lot of people would laugh or reference South Park. If I told a joke about Joel Steinberg, Mao, Isis or Peter Scully, nobody is going to laugh at all. In fact, some of those subjects might result in me getting kicked in the crotch for joking about them. My point being that as Poe said in The Masque of the Red Death, most of us have at least one standard.
What does this have to do with the Joker and what you've brought up? I'll tell you: The Joker and other supervillains are memetic. We make parodies and mockeries of them all the time, even when they're being monsters because they've become memes. The Joker is the embodiment of a killer meme because of unintentional refuge in audacity. Other pieces of fiction are truly regarded as horrifying because they're so horrible we dare not make them into meme jokes. The modern Joker is meant to appeal to our inner id and appeal to our love of gratuitous emotional thrill.
I'd like to ask this question: When does something become so terrible that nobody will joke about it? Another example: I don't know if you like anime/manga as well, but here's another example: Everybody likes to make videos and comments about how disgusting Makoto from School Days is. Nobody dares mention his father, Tomaru Sawagoe or the visual novels detailing his life, there's barely any pics of him anywhere, and talking about him will either be met with silence or the, "We don't talk about him." response.
Forgive me if I'm rambling. I really like this article. It's food for thought, and I really admire your willingness to address a subject either nobody admits is real or just brushes off.
I almost forgot; do you know how to do a dark comic right? Have you read any of Garth Ennis's work such as Preacher, The Boys, and my personal favorite, Punisher MAX? Ennis is an excellent writer, if a little bit brutal.
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I mean, these are character that really really really should be in the public domain at this point, so that's half the problem.Β Possibly more than half.
Β But yes, give me the days before "I'm going to kill all life on Earth.Β That's the joke."
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heh, that would be a good reason for a complete reboot to me.
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That one that cut his face off was too much!
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Hey, I like your picture. I agree with some of what you said, but don't kill the Joker.Β
The Joker is a great character concept when handled correctly, and I disagree about Return of the Joker and the Arkham games, but I do think it got too dark after the Arkham games. The games were okay, though. Most of it was Joker annoying Batman while he tried to find a cure for the virus they were both infected with. I'm not really against Joker's gratuitous violence because I think part of his character is, or at least should be, that he thinks he's a fictional character, and that's okay if it's done tastefully. I'm blaming the comic books and their need to be edgy, though, for non-tasteful character changes.Β
Instead, I think the comics should actually concentrate on developing characters and fleshing them out. Making Joker regress back to this unknowable chaotic serial killer form was just...disappointing, especially after we saw him go on romps and outings with Harley, steal magical artifacts, become ruler of the world, etc. I'm all for killing off the new 52 version of the Joker, but only if he's replaced by a more classic rendition of the character that embodies all of his best traits. A good way to do this in universe would be to "cure" the character and develop whatever human persona could be given to him.Β
I'm kind of a fan of Batman: White Knight, because it does this for the clown, and the Joker in this comic isn't extremely violent and is instead somewhat comedic. He kidnaps and tortures Robin for information, but that's about it.Β
I'm not really sure why the comic creators have chosen to go this route with the Joker. Those who say that he was always like this must be missing something, because I don't think BTAS Joker was anywhere near the monster we have in the new 52.Β
I think DC comics must have something against giving its villains any character development...Β
We don't "secretly love evil people." They're just often more interesting than the heroes in fiction, especially Boogeymen like the Joker and Doctor Moriarty; without them, stories with Batman and Sherlock Holmes wouldn't be nearly as interesting. and, unlike real life super villains, fictional ones can be molded into whatever you want--Deadpool for example.Β
The real life super villains, though, I have no respect for. I wish the Joker would get them...if he were real.Β
I disagree that it's a love for evil people that makes us like the Joker, though. We tend to be drawn to charisma, and characters that have it are naturally charming. It's the charm we're drawn to. I could love a character like the Joker without the serial killer edge, as long as he had something else to make him interesting. I really kind of wish they would bring back the Jokester character--Joker's good guy counterpart from Pre-Crisis Earth 3. That clown only let his enemies die of embarrassment by telling jokes and pulling harmless pranks at their expense, but it was still an interesting character concept that I would have liked to have seen developed.Β
No, I like the Joker for his dark sense of humor and light-hearted attitude, not because he kills people. That should be clear from the new 52 Joker. I hate that character, but I don't want to see the real Joker done away with.Β
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While I disagree about "Return of The Joker" and the Arkham games (he would totally do stuff like that to piss Batman off and it worked...and yes, his deaths were satisfying because he kinda poked at the hornet's nest...and they're excellent depictions of the clown), I see where you're coming from. When it comes to the comics, stuff went south after Dennis O'Neil left as an editor... did not stop the occasional good story here and there though.
Brave and the Bold is very hit or miss, but I can't deny that Jeff Bennett pulls it off brilliantly. However, the Arkham games to me saved Batman and brought his humanity back to the limelight.Β Β
Smiling Like A Killer...AHAHAHAHAHAHAAA !
Also I find your comparison with real-life psychos a stretch; he's a cartoon.Β So they are very different types of fascination.
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Well yeah, I do agree that my argument about the whole psycho bit is very stretched but still, how come we don't remember the good guys in history that much more than the bad guys?Β
I will stand by the fact that brave and the bold was a AWESOME show, I would LOVE to own the DVD collection! :3
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The core of the Joker should be a master of dark comedy and satire, just one who regards human lives as fair game to kill or otherwise ruin so he can get that punchline
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Exactly, or atleast someone who is really random at his mo for crime.
Like there is this anthology comic called Joker's Asylum where he would act as a storyteller a la tales from the crypt featuring different Batman villains. One of them featured Joker as he took a game show hostage and threatened to continue the show with him as the host or else he would blow up the entire building. But it turned out to be just a ruse to exploit the TV producer who could simply call the cops and Batman or pretend that the show was on the air but he was like "Dude, look at the ratings, they are through the roof, we can make MILLIONS" and Joker had a hidden camera recording it and then played it out for viewers to see and thus most likely the show would be cancelled or the producer fired and never getting a new job again.Β
Or in the animated series, "The Man who Killed Batman", Joker realizing that Batman may actually have been killed by a wimpy looking short guy instead of him and that put him into dismay since in his mind, Joker and batman were more like the extremely violent version of Tom and Jerry and in his own words "without Batman, crime has no punchline" ie not funny anymore. Yet he decides to have a funeral ceremony which was pretty both dark AND hilarious at the same time as Joker does hisΒ eulogyΒ and even has Harley Quinn do the "Amazing Grace" song using a kazoo!
That is what the Joker is to the core for me, not this chaotic genocidal maniac we see today...
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heck, even Devilkais agree(fan of joker) even drew fanart of the funny joker stabbing new 52 joker.Β
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that would be nice to see :3
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Made by the "devil" man himself(mind the pun, it was bit too devilish to pass on.)
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Special thanks to the devil man devilkais himself.
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I guess Batman's line in Mad Love served as foreshadowing to all this.
"It was an easy hint, Joker. Sloppy. Predictable. You're losing your edge."
It's the perfect way to sum that all up.
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Wow, Dini and Timm predicted that tDC would fudge things up
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I agree. I hate how The Joker went through some major character decay over the tears.
Also, am I the only one who think Heath Ledger is unattractive looking? I mean, he looked like a malnourished drug addict.
Why fangirls find men that look like drugged out, anorexic female supermodels hot and sexy is beyond me.
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Yeah, it is rather sad when a none canon kids movie animated version of the Joker, ie Batman Unlimited: Monster Mayhem Β where he had this hilariously awesome plan to take over the world using a super computer virus to infect all the vital information and blackmail people to like ten minutes of internet if they behaved or told the villains where they last saw Batman or his friends. He did want chaos and all that sure, but he used controlled chaos. And what better way to do that by threatening to empty your digital bank account or exposing your web history.Β
Honestly, looking at The Joker in Suicide Squad played by Jared Leto, I'd say that Ledger did a much better job as the Joker.Β
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I do agree with your statement, which is why one day, I wish to make a graphic novel of Batman, which is a throwback to the golden age of DC Comics, with the Joker back to his good old roots.
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I had the same idea too, rewriting the characters so that they were a mix of the best part of different media depictions of Batman and his rogue gallery. Like how Joker was going to be like the criminal prankster in the 60s show using toys and practical joke gimmicks as tools or weapons, without killing anyone. Like how the laughing gas wasn't lethal but it caused people to laugh until they were knocked out. Basically he would be like The Mask from the movie and the live action one with the same eccentric attitude of Jim Carrey mixed with Ceasar Romero.
Harley Quinn would have the same origin from the original animated show, a simple shrink who fell in love with the Joker who just treated her nicely and had fun with. She becomes Harley Quinn when she somewhat unintentionally causes a breakout in the prison (Because in my version, Arkham Asylum is actually a maximum security prison called Arkham Prison) that made the Joker and other villains escape thus becoming Harley Quinn and did her own thing with the blessings of her now funloving boyfriend minus the abuse and such.
Now Batman would be a challenge, since I am not the best writer when it comes down to detective stories even though I love watching mystery shows. But to me, Batman has become so dull with his constant brooding and emo about everything that I miss when he was a noble knight with a hardboiled detective approach to it.
His origin would be the same, except his parents are killed by accident by a desperate and hungry thug named Joe Chill who later turns himself in due to the massive guilt and anguish he suffered after leaving a young boy orphaned when he wanted to feed his child as well. Because of this, Bruce Wayne isn't so traumatized as he originally is. Sure he is sad and such but he does have Alfred and his friends at school to support him so he won't feel so alone. But he does feel like he should do something more about criminals in general so he figured logically that he should be a police officer and work for Jim Gordon who is in fact a friend of his family.
So he would study harder, getting better grades while reading detective novels and stuff like that to prepare himself to be a police officer. So he trains martial arts, does boy building and other extreme sports like free running and free climbing and yet spends time with those he cares about, friends, family and such. But he soon learns that since he IS the son of the wealthiest and famous family in the world, he doesn't get applied to any police academies for the main reason that since he would become a much easy target for every single criminals out there.
Bruce of course goes "fuck", but remembers his old idols from his childhood. Zorro, The Grey Ghost, The Scarlet Pimpernel. They all had a common theme. Rich nobility with a secret identity wearing a mask fighting for the lesser fortunate against the oppressive forces of evil. So Bruce goes "I need to be a masked mystery detective! But I just can't take like a simple costume wearing a hat and a mask like that Spirit guy. What I need, is a dark theme. Something that Gotham would be afraid of, like the boogeyman for crime that would make them reconsider not doing anything illegal... Wait!" He does recall a old local urban myth about a monster that resemble a giant human like bat terrorizing Gotham way back centuries ago.
He looks at all the old various drawings and alleged pictures of said "Bat-Man" or "Man-Bat" and thinks "...I just had the most brilliant idea ever. I shall become, The Man-Bat! ... Erm, wait that didn't really rhyme well, I will be Batman! ... I like that."
So Bruce makes a costume with kevlar and all the toys he need for his crime fighting and detective skills inspired by the designs from Gotham by Gaslight except less steampunkish. Mostly because I like the design with the long coat and such.
So he does that he does best, fighting crime by scaring the crap out of criminals and solving the most baffling mysteries like a masked Sherlock Holmes minus the whole social outcast deal mixed with the hard boiled Dick Tracy approach. And he would betray or distant from his friends, especially the ones that would form the Trinity of Heroes, Wonder Woman and Superman.
...Wow,Β that was a long read, sorry <.<
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No worries, anyways, I like your ideas, my idea for a Batman story is called, "BATMAN: The Last Laugh", where Batman faces off against the Joker one last time, inspired by the ending of the original Sherlock Holmes stories, where Sherlock Holmes & Professor Moriarty faced off at Reichenbach Falls, where they both end up falling off a cliff down a waterfall.
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Did you forget that "Death in the family" and "the killing joke" were released before the 90's cartoon, along with "The Dark Knight Returns" in the 80's. Killing people has always been a part of Joker's character.
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Yeah, and even then I didn't really liked Joker when he did that even though Death in the Family was a publicity and editorial stunt from DC since fans stated how much they hated Jason Todd as Robin that they decided to kill him off before he became Red Hood.Β
I admit, I grew up with the Cesar Romero version of Joker with his giddiness and contagious giggling and laughter so I am a bit biased about developing a character as classic as the Joker but I am more or less referring how he is now these days, just a lame massmurderer no class or finess. Hell, he is just as lame as Carnage from the Marvel Universe and that's saying a lot. Β
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well i thought he had his funny moments in the Arkhamverse, but otherwise i agree
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I believe this fits it best i.imgur.com/zCItHPx.jpg
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yeah that was one of the sources of inspirations for this pic ^^
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though, if I recall correctly, Jared Leto's Joker is supposed to be Jason Todd.
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Really? So they go that Jason Todd is not Red Hood, but the Joker...?
That's---- a really good idea!
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