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solar-sea In reply to Nivalis70 [2014-07-02 19:00:48 +0000 UTC]

Oh dear Niv
Remember Mick Jagger singing "I can't get no satisfaction" ?
That's about it I honestly did not want to rant but you inspired me, so now you have to deal with this extensive show of feels - as it's gonna be long, because sensitive subject and much obsession involved

You describe the MH chemistry so in sync with how I'm feeling it that I can't seem to find enough words to express my utmost appreciation of the fact that you seriously took Madara's tumultuous nature into consideration to such an extent where I'm almost singing from your commentary alone!
Hard as it may be, I'll try to be coherent

MH can never satisfy, and therein the beauty lies
Satisfy neither characters nor us the readers. The perfection of what's going to be forever left unsaid (even if the canon closure happens; which I doubt, it's a shounen, after all ) and thus - what can only be left for the dreamworld(s) (that of fans, or Madara's ) where it can become reality.


"leftover pieces of feelings <...> troublesome friend" - ever considered writing fanfiction?
Niiv, that's precious, honestly, I tell you, that's just IT Nails it.

Whereas Madara strives - in his own, unorthodox, twisted way (of pain, rejection, denial, admiration, envy, and the dubious stature of forgiveness (Tobirama killing Izuna and getting away with it like a sir) - for his and Hashi's Brokeback Mountain to come true, Hashi is indeed... Exactly someone not really likeable
(You're very well aware I have reasons to dislike him, and we share those )

"too much close to reality to be matter for dreaming, for my liking" - key word is 'liking', amirite? That's it - and I'm more than willing to share my own thoughts on that one: see, I primarily regard Madara's dream as a space where Hashirama is NOT afraid to decide for himself, just in the fashion when Madara is never afraid to decide for himself
(although Madara's strength in taking crucial decisions is dictated by his state of despair from being alone and not supported, alienated by his own kin, mocked and is basically, like you mention, the only thing keeping him alive AND fighting, refusing to ever give up ---- and Hashirama's strength comes exactly from what Madara lacks - family and trust)

***

So that's the dream where their own Brokeback Mountain happens despite the social restrictions (how do I even name those properly ) Hashirama obtains (or, in Mads' view, which he himself created to only make the future with Mads more impossible)  ---- a-a-and now to the best part:
the imbalance!

The dream can't be balanced with reality the way these two can't balance each other in the current state of things (and I honestly suspect Hashirama must have been what... afraid? to act (somehow, anyhow - act!); because that scene of 'I'll rather kill myself than me brother' shows us how much easier it is to eliminate oneself from the problematic situation than to keep all sides alive (and then he kills Madara because srsly); though ofc, talking as a reader, I have little to no idea how I'd have acted in such situation )

 - and this is the ultimate song of ice and fire (not that one ) - but the ice is actually a rock, so the fire's attemps are futile... And ain't it beautiful?
In a horrible, decadent way.

Look at all those other ships (canon or crack, no matter) - they're all inevitably balanced - fire and water, light and dark, sun and moon, sound and silence - and whereas technically Hashirama fits to a "t" - he really doesn't.
Incompleted things always leave room for imagination. And for longing, yeah


And you know what the ultimate king of angst scenario would be: when EVEN in Mads' dream Hashirama does not WANT to decide and act how Madara assumed he would definitely do, free from all the obligations Where he just accepts the love with the friendly compassion of exactly that person you decribe, who's tired of caring for the troublesome friend.
THAT would be a showdown. That would even make me love this crazy pair more, but you know it already


Probably the longest of my rants in a long, long time Should have spent that energy on the reply to your note, shouldn't I? But you just had to drop in your two cents that are made of wildfire or Amaterasu fire, which would be more relevant, amirite?
And for this I thank you


(The colours were totally not mine decision - they painted themselves and only then allowed me to shape them into M & H Energy, yeah, that's the best description there could be! )

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Nivalis70 In reply to solar-sea [2014-07-06 09:34:30 +0000 UTC]

Oh, rants like this are welcome!

>you seriously took Madara's tumultuous nature into consideration to such an extent

Madara is so genuine and ardent that is not possible not to love him. At first, I didn't like Madara, but as the story made me know more about him, as much I loved him more and more. There are just a few characters I'm fond of, that are Itachi, Lee, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Naruto and Madara. I like some other too, but just up to a certain extent, while there are some I really dislike, such as Hiruzen, Kakashi and him, Hashirama.
“I can't get no satisfaction” fits well for a fair amount of the Naruto sub-stories! be it the impossible triangle Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke (not sure about who loves who ) (now a square adding the poor Hinata), or the very life of that Itachi Uchiha!

>The perfection of what's going to be forever left unsaid

I agree that this makes the magic in a story – not by chance I loved Itachi and his dark silence from the start

I'm sure Madara cares a lot, so much! of his friend, he never ceased to love Hashirama as a friend (or as a man, let the imagination ride free), while the latter did, as he once had to weigh up the career and what remained of his childhood dreams and memories in his heart. I understand that responsibility may drive a man to take hard decisions, but the truth lies in the deep of one's heart in the end. Well, Hashirama makes me think he didn't care of the Uchiha clan, as it's obvious by the choice of the counselors accompanying him in the meeting with other countries' kage. If Hashirama would have chosen just one Uchiha to be among the council members, then he'd have proved that this scene www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/… was not the basis of a capitulation in disguise of a cease-fire, but a cease-fire which lets a new alliance to rise. If Hashirama would have proved to take care of the Uchiha clan -even just for a little bit (e.g. by including a guarantee of rights to the Uchihas under the constitution) , a bit more than just blandly scolding his brother's manifest hostility - then I could accept the idea that Madara was still important to him, and that he suffered “that much enough” while killing him in that somehow meaningful way because really forced due of the changing of Madara's attitude. I have the feeling that Hashirama was sad for himself only, while Madara noticed how much his former friend has changed.
I have the feeling - of course it's just a personal impression - that what's left unsaid between them is that Hashirama never cared that much of Madara, being him a “light”, easy-going type of person in opposition to a “heavy”, emotional type like Madara (it reminds me of that little bit I can remember of The unbearable lightness of being, about the painful relationship between two opposite types like that).

>The dream can't be balanced with reality the way these two can't balance each other in the current state of things

I agree, I see their affinity is based on their diversity, but, as Madara said, Hashirama has changed at a certain point, otherwise they still would have made that enjoyable pair they once were, like a cat and his living ball of wool ^3^

>and this is the ultimate song of ice and fire (not that one ) - but the ice is actually a rock, so the fire's attemps are futile... And ain't it beautiful?
In a horrible, decadent way.

I guess this is the beauty in MH that also is what I find painful in that! Liking, personal impression are the keyword, of course!

> And you know what the ultimate king of angst scenario would be: when EVEN in Mads' dream Hashirama does not WANT to decide and act how Madara assumed he would definitely do, free from all the obligations

Oh my! (just imagining Madara's expression ) My poor Mads doesn't deserve it! but yeah, you know, it's not that far from what it could actually happen in such situation!!

I thank you, dear Jess!

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