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katzille In reply to chaoswolf1982 [2012-01-06 10:31:25 +0000 UTC]

I think Terry wanted to play with the cliche (as he often does), that in the long history of dwarf appearances in films and books they are always portraid as bearded and masculin whereas female dwarfs are never mentioned
(at least that's my impression, correct me if I'm wrong).

What makes Cheery so sympathetic is (in my opinion) the fact, that she doesn't want to live this cliche anymore. She hates 'typical' dwarfish things like beer and songs about gold. She has an undwarfish hobby (alchemy) and wants to show her femininity without betraying her ethnicity.

And last but not least: she just wants to be a normal girl

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chaoswolf1982 In reply to katzille [2012-01-06 17:26:31 +0000 UTC]

True enough.

I think also the reason I find her so acceptable is, unlike a lot of others I've encountered (usually idiotic roleplayers who think Tolkien is second only to the Bible), Mr. Pratchett actually has plausible and valid reasons for his dwarf women having beards, they're not just "lolol dwarf wimminz has beards because dwarf is dwarf rofl elves r ghey" mindless cliche'.

Speaking of J.R.R., by the way, a lot of folks cite him for the whole "bearded women" notion, but he never actually says the women are bearded. In fact, he only ever specifically mentions one female dwarf by name - Dis, daughter of Thrain II and mother of Fili and Kili. Aragorn in the movie suggests the women are bearded, but he is Human and possibly a bit drunk at the time. The closest Tolkien ever comes to the "bearded women" idea is to say that the women are rare and thus tend to disguise as men when traveling, and that to most members of other races, all dwarves seem to look alike. This doesn't mean that the women had beards, though, just that a dwarf was able to pick up on subtle differences in the dwarven face that a non-dwarf could not - I imagine the same would hold true for elves as well.

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katzille In reply to chaoswolf1982 [2012-01-06 18:07:31 +0000 UTC]

Ahh, now I understand your dislike towards bearded female dwarfs.

I must admit, I never read Tolkin, just watched the movies. Do you know, how dwarf womens are portrayed in other books? I'm a dwarf fan and want to know everything about them

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chaoswolf1982 In reply to katzille [2012-01-06 19:28:12 +0000 UTC]

Well, aside from misinterpreted Tolkien and the aforementioned Pratchett, dwarven women tend to be beardless, in the times they're mentioned at all - even D&D has them smooth-faced, and not because of shaving.

Typically, however, settings with dwarves in fiction (at least in my experience) don't often make mention of females - either they are rare, kept secluded, or sometimes don't exist at all and the monogendered dwarves simply are born fullgrown from holes in the earth or carved from mystic statuary.

From my personal experience, dwarves, in the "classic stereotype" of them as being pragmatic, strong-willed, fond of fight and drink and forgework, and so forth, are actually best presented by the Warcraft universe in my opinion.

[link] Frankly, if it were somehow possible to become one of the in-game races, I think I'd pick Dwarf. Bold-hearted, courageous, fond of knowledge, yet not so entrenched that they can't enjoy good times, and close-knit ties with one's friends and family. Plus, the women are quite easy on the eye, if you're like me and are fond of curves, heheh.

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Aseenkantaja In reply to chaoswolf1982 [2012-01-08 12:56:40 +0000 UTC]

You, my friend... You just said what I was going to say and what I have thought all the time. Phew, I was afraid I am only one who thinks that dwarf females _deserve_ to be beardless.

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chaoswolf1982 In reply to Aseenkantaja [2012-01-09 05:42:58 +0000 UTC]

From what I've seen of discussions of the topic online, it seems that most people prefer them beardless, and that most who insist upon otherwise - with the obvious exception of Pratchett fans, of course - tend to just be saying so to be obnoxious and get a reaction.

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Aseenkantaja In reply to chaoswolf1982 [2012-01-09 14:42:37 +0000 UTC]

Oh, alright!

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katzille In reply to stacieyates [2012-01-06 09:48:42 +0000 UTC]

And your spelling of adorable is also adorabuhl

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katzille In reply to WolfBiyo [2012-01-06 01:09:26 +0000 UTC]

Cheery starts her career in 'Feets of Clay'. In chronological order she appears also in 'Jingo', 'The Fifth Elephant' (where she is one of the main characters), 'Klonk' (also main character) and 'Snuff'.

Hope I could help ^^ Just out of curiosity; which discworld books have you read so far?

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WolfBiyo In reply to katzille [2012-01-30 02:01:40 +0000 UTC]

Oh my, so many books!... And I've never even heard of them, for shame!...
/needs to catch up on her TP reading, yessir.
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this, mate! ^^
Oh, and the books I've read so far are "The Colour of Magic", "The Light Fantastic", "Equal Rites", "Wyrd Sisters", "Sourcery", "Reaper Man", "Mort", "Moving Pictures", "Pyramids", and "Witches Abroad".
And I sincerely can't chose a favourite. xDDD

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katzille In reply to heart-of-glass [2012-01-05 22:57:19 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the compliment!

Don't worry I plan to flood you with Discworld fanart ^^
I think Cheery has quite a lot of fashion disasters to catch up on (I presume that she is in her 70s).

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