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JulesDrenages β You disgust me
Published: 2012-11-13 17:37:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 4269; Favourites: 92; Downloads: 24
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" ...said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little. [...]"And what will you give in me in return , Severus?"
"In - in return?" Snape gaped at Dumbledore, and Harry expected him to protest, but after a long moment he said,
"Anything". "
[Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Ch. 33: The Prince's Tale]
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Because no matter how many RABxSS fanarts I come up with, CANON is, was, always will be my one true love and the reason I'm still taken with HP even after all these years. JulesXCanon=OTP
IMHO denying Snape's downfall belittles his successive redemption, hence, the urge to show that, yes, there was a time in which, Albus Dumbledore, the man who trusted Severus Snape completely, felt towards said wizard the deepest disgust. Reasonably so.
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Ink and poster paint.
Characters belong to JKR.
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Comments: 54
Thank you!
It's been so long since we last interacted, I'm happy you liked the piece and found the time to leave some words.
As someone that logs in only once a week, more or less, I think it's easy to miss things, so don't worry.
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Yes it's horrible. i even don't understand where the 2013 year disappeared. Time flies.
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The only problem is, DD really didn't have a *RIGHT* to feel that disgust, certainly not given his own past. As soon as Snape realized the consequences of his actions, he tried to set things right; DD waited for literally YEARS before he worked up the courage to confront Grindelwald. Β
(And on a practical note, did DD really think Snape could have asked Voldie to spare Harry and James too without getting himself AK'd on the spot?)
All that said, your drawing is lovely. Such clean sharp lines, and very expressive.Β
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Grindelwald and Dumbledore spent (and I quote from DH) "Two months of insanity, of cruel dreams, and neglect of the only two members of my family left to me [Dumbledore]". Then Aberforth confronted the both of them, the fight that followed killed Ariana, Grindelwald fled and vanished. Years passed before rumours about him were heard again. When it was clear that he was indeed raising an army, Dumbledore fought him.
Should Albus have chased him right after Ariana's death, when he was at the most vulnerable and desperate in his life? Their foolish dream was over, they were over, Grindelwald disappeared and Albus had to face the atrocious consequences of his own greedy actions - there was no imminent danger and no need for him to actually hunt Grindelwald down.
Didn'tΒ he have the right to feel disgusted? He was Voldemort's first opponent, head of the Order of the Phoenix, fighting against Riddle's regimen openly. Why couldn't he feel disgust for a Death Eater who just admitted to have bargained innocent human lives for his own selfish reasons (and had I been Snape I'd probably tried to do the same, but still selfish it was, imho)? Snape won Dumbledore's respect and absolute trust in time, when he truly started to make up for his mistakes. What did Dumbledore know about him, when they met on that hill? What did he get from the few words they spoke? Why did he have to be nice and kind to a servant of Voldemort? To his SPY? What did his own past have to do with anything?
That came into account later, when they built a new relationship. The hilltop was not place for forgiveness or acceptance.
About the sparing of James and Harry: it's not that Snape should have really asked Voldemort to spare them all, it's the fact that in order to save the woman he "loved" he was ready to send to death her husband and her child without a second thought. Guess Lily would have been happy to be spared like this.
Sorry for the papyrus, I'm glad you liked the drawing. I just become quite passionate about these discussions...
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Thanks for the feature! A nice birthday present indeed!
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I honestly didn't know that it's your birthday, too, but all the better! I'm glad you like.
I've been meaning to write a comment with some thoughts on this scene for some time, but hadn't come round to do it yet. I really love it, though!
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Words will come, but in the meantime: thank you, happy to hear you appreciate it!
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I love how you played DumbledoreΒ΄s white vs SeverusΒ΄s black using the blue almost as a frame for their color duality. Really striking! and the page layout is great! You should do more pages like this, o try to do a "comic book" take on other scenes!
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Thanks for the thoughtful comment: I'm glad you liked the colours, their planning is always the hardest part for me - when I gave the first brush of blue, I felt like fainting (since I was working on paper, no coming back once started)!
I do like your suggestion about doing similar pages: this one was planned ages ago and I've never thought about drawing this scene any other way, but I could try with something else... The Prince's Tale has some potential in this sense, being made of short, little scenes like this one. Thank you for the tip!
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Well-thought, well-done 
Sorry for the lack of constructive comments these last times!
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Oh, every sign of acknowledgement and appreciation is precious and cherished, so thank you!
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Interesting take. I could almost see it on stage in a musical version of DH...
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I love that scene. You've depicted it so well. I love the expressions, the use of colours and the patterns on the grass. To me, the final "Anything" was always a little lost, as if he's just realised it himself - somewhat bleak. Here, you've made it more defiant; angry. It's not how the scene plays itself in my head, but that's okay too, it's always interesting to see other people's perspectives.
I haven't come across the fandom opinions that I had, but if I had, they'd probably annoy me too...
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That "Anything" troubled me a bit. I've always thought about it as a kind of silent epiphany, so yes, in my head Severus wears a somehow "lost" face. I tried to draw that sequence, but it didn't work (probably I haven't been able to capture the expressions well), so I started again and the flow of feelings brought me to this different interpretation of the scene. I actually stared at the paper sheet and said: "Wow, I never looked at it this way. Could work." - so I kept it.
Different opinions and interpretations are what keep fandom alive: they're fun, entertaining and interesting. Sometimes people get a bit carried away. Honestly, the biggest "issue" I've found in all the fandoms I knew is misbehaviour...
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Haha, sounds like you had pretty much the same sequence of emotions before andafter drawing it as I did before and after seeing it
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Awesome illustration of this important scene. I really like Dumbledore in the central panel, and your interpretation of Snape's conflicting emotions.
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Many thanks, Cathy. It means a lot.
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This is amazing. You can feel the moment quite nicely.
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Thanks for your words! Glad you appreciate it.
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You're welcome. I do appreciate good ink-work.
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I lol @ all the people who say "the jury's out on whether Snape killed anyone, gais. He could have just made SPESHUL POSHUNZ for Voldemort."
because REALLY
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Oh, I still have doubts on the whole killing affair, but I get your point. In the end, it doesn't matter if he truly murdered anyone or was just waiting in the backlines, because when asked, he still chose to burn that d*mn Dark Mark on his skin, fully aware of what it meant. That's it. He didn't find himself caught in the events, he made a conscious (wrong) choice, that, in the end, led to his own misery and to the death of one of the only things he sincerely loved. If that wasn't the case, his later story becomes, well, pretty pointless, doesn't it?
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I got the impression that all the death eaters had either taken part in torturing or killing at some point--whether it be by wand or poison. There have to be some pretty hardcore initiation rites--I mean, Voldy was having Draco kill Dumbledore to prove himself, and no one was surprised he'd assigned a killing, only worried that it was tricky and Draco would probably fail (a.k.a. revenge on Lucius!) Then again, JKR is not very specific about this part of the books, so I could be off. I'd be surprised if she said otherwise, though.
I agree that his story is pointless without admitting that he actually made some fucking terrible choices and was solely responsible for those choices. I mean, either way you slice it, being a part of the Death Eaters and enabling Voldemort means you're responsible for a lot of lives, whether directly or indirectly.
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Yes!
I know what you mean, I actually agree to a point, though I still have the impression that Snape was probably more a secret lurker/spy than an active murder - even in those first days. But that's a matter of interpretations: after all, we're not told anything specific about the war time - we know the atmosphere and have a general idea of what it was like to live under Voldemort's first regime, but -correct me if I'm wrong- little is told about the personalities involved. Snape could have been a Muggle hunter or just Riddle's personal potion maker - it's up to us to decide what version you like better, because it doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't have joined their ranks in the first place.
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Valid point! You're right, we don't get anything specific as far as I remember, so it's really up to our little fanstruck brains xD. I just get all spiced up over people who try to absolve Snape of all blame. But...we're in the same boat there, and I'm glad to have company : P. I think I would *like* sometimes to think he was more of a "lurker", but I my default setting is to think it's likely he probably killed/tortured at some point. It's more uncomfortable, but I like it that way if only because it inspires my fic-writing juices, lol. I really believe Severus has struggled with true sadistic tendencies for most of his adult life, so this could have something to do with my opinions on the matter
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Yes, in the end, at this point, is a matter of personal opinions and suppositions. None of us is trying to white-wash him which is, in fact, the whole point.
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That blue is so rich! I love it.
JulesDrenages strikes again with her perfect line-art.
HOW.DO.YOU.DO.IT?
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Ooooh! I'm so happy you noticed that colour: I was excited to find such an amazing nuance among all my old tubes!
Now, don't make me blush, Rosa, my lineart is not nearly as perfect as you claim (
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heh heh 
You're Welcome!
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There can be no redemption with out a fall from grace first.
I love the way you made Snape seem so small and beneath contempt in this moment. Nice job.
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He's quite pitiable in this moment. Death Eater, yes, but actually cringing to Dumbledore, almost begging for help. He fears for Lily, he's facing his own betrayal to the Dark Lord, he's reconsidering his choices.
I always get mad when people refuses to acknowledge the fact that Severus Snape was, in fact, a *willing Death Eater*. If he, from the very beginning, were nothing but a misunderstood, noble boy (and then man), what makes his later actions so meaningful? If he actually were a nice man of pleasurable company, would his story be so heart-wrenching? If he never deliberately chose to be a Death Eater, what importance gains his change of mind and hard path of redemption?
Fandom wank makes my blood boil, sometimes...
Glad you appreciated the piece, btw.
(Sorry for the possible language mistakes - subjunctive and its tenses are not my forte - need more practice!)
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Snape deserves Dumbledore's disgust for having joined the Death Eaters, but I don't think he deserves it for having thought first of saving Lily, and thinking of James and Harry second. That, after all, is what love means: caring more about your loved one than you do about anyone else. It's not like he actively wanted Lily's family to die; he was simply focused on the one he loved rather than on people he didn't love. Would Albus have been disgusted if Lily cared more about saving the lives of James and Harry than she did for Severus? It was the fact that Lily loved Harry more than anyone else that saved Harry's life.
Sev's determined expression in the final panel is great. He knows perfectly well he's swearing away the rest of his life -- even though Dumbles fails to keep his part of the bargain.
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I can see where Dumbledore's answer comes from: in this paragraph, Severus reminded me of a pitiable rat. I can understand his desire to put Lily first, but it's not only that to sicken Dumbledore: when directly questioned, Severus admits to have asked the Dark Lord to spare Lily's life in exchange for Harry's, which sounds far worse to me. I can still the logic and motivations behind such a request, but do they make a request as "Would you please just kill her baby and let her live, please?" sound acceptable? I don't think so. Yes, he cares for Lily more than everything else, but it's a twisted, almost sick feeling - if you look at it from the outside. Again, he seems to consider her not as a normal human being but something more abstract and ethereal...
His dismissal of the child's life is another reason for Dumbledore to despise him, the sign of a quite rotten scale of values: in fact, in his last years, Snape seems to have learned that every single life is valuable, not only the ones that mean most to you. Again, I do understand his reasons: but I still don't feel like sympathizing with him, at the moment.
Glad you liked the panel: that's what I wanted to show.
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Severus didn't offer to "exchange" Harry's life for Lily's. The Dark Lord was going to kill Harry, period. That was the whole point of Voldemort's attack. Nothing anyone could say would change his mind. But Lily was possibly save-able, so Severus did what he could to save her. Saving Harry wasn't on the table.
What made Dumbledore angry was that Severus didn't instantly ask Dumbles himself to save all three, even though Severus jumped immediately to, "Yes, save them all," as soon as it was mentioned. Dumbledore was disgusted that Lily came first, but I think Severus had a right to think of Lily first and the others second. It's not saintly; it's human. The person he loves comes first; that doesn't mean other shouldn't be saved, too, but it's not the number one item on his list. It's exactly the same as Lily putting Harry first on her list, and she gets hailed as Holy Saint Lily for that.
I think we've discussed this before, and are never going to agree. Fortunately, disagreements between fans are what keep fandom from becoming boring. I have made my point, and will say no more.
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There's also the question of context. Dumbledore was already disgusted with Snape because of him serving the Dark Lord, so was going to view anything that he said in that light. He was already (understandably and humanly) biased against him.
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Fair enough, and believe me, I do understand your point of view; I actually do agree with most of the things you say - though, I guess, at the end of that specific paragraph we had a different perception of Severus: that's something I like about fandom - different people, with different sensibilities, capture different things from the same situation. As long as canon is not denied, debates are entertaining.
I don't remember discussing this with you before, but okay, no problem.
I just wanted to point out that I do not think of Lily as a Holy Saint: her few lines in the books spoke to me of a quite brave, strong-willed woman and a loving mother, yes, but I saw a flawed human being there as well.
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I'm interested to hear how you interpret Lily as flawed. For me, she is one of the least fleshed-out characters for the amount that she appears - we only ever seem to see her through other people's eyes, or very occasionally loving Harry. Of course, I'm not saying that she isn't flawed, but for me the books didn't go out of their way to make her human.
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What I got from the books is the picture of a basically good woman, with a kind heart. That said, I also saw a hot temper and some kind of harshness that may have been smoothed in time. She struck me as a lioness (she *is* a Gryffindor) in the positive and negative aspects. From the few things we see, it's almost impossible to draw a true portrait of her character, but what I got from the little I read is the idea of a "layered" human being. Her attitude is realistic, but since she has a very limited space in the novels to actually "act", the notion that her heart and nature is good and the fact that people talk about her with praise and affection makes us think of a flawless person that most likely she wasn't...
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yes yes YES oh my god
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this is truly awesome!!!!
touching, aims just right... the composition enhances this moment, which is already awesome in itself... really, you made my day
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And you made mine!
Happy to hear you like it, I worked quite hard on this!
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*big hug*
I'm working quite hard on my current drawing, too... the background makes me crazy XD
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