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Azmal In reply to RoninPsycho [2010-02-11 22:32:23 +0000 UTC]

There's always a better steel depending on the application. Many high end art swords and knives ($15,000 and up) use 440C. 440C has great corrosion resistance and can take a mirror polish though it gets a bad rap from the foreign scrap steels who stamp their non heat treated/tempered blades with 440C and sometimes made with 440A or B anyway. But yes, there are better steels for edge retention and other qualities but anyway, my policy will be that I can make a weapon with any steel the client wants, or help them choose the right steel for their needs.

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RoninPsycho In reply to Azmal [2010-03-13 05:24:48 +0000 UTC]

To be honest, I've never once seen or heard of a sword or weapon of any sort made of any stainless steel that cost anywhere close to $15,000. But I suppose I see what you mean.

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Azmal In reply to meleck [2010-01-26 01:05:35 +0000 UTC]

To be honest that sounds like a problem with heat treat, or the steel, or both. But I've still got much to learn so maybe that could be true. What you're saying makes intuitive sense but with homogeneous steel it doesn't seem so likely. (assuming the blade isn't undergoing destruction testing)

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meleck In reply to Azmal [2010-01-28 13:17:22 +0000 UTC]

It's not a question of heat treatment. I've witnessed blades breaking precisely at the juncture of the tang and the blade when used in combat. There it's just a question of experience with sword fighting and talking to my blade-making friends.

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Azmal In reply to meleck [2010-01-28 14:38:11 +0000 UTC]

I'm pretty sure most advanced sword makers would agree the most important thing in a sword, even above the steel selection, is proper heat treat and temper. Without these you will indeed witness these breaks. I don't know your blade making friends but it is a complicated process (easy to screw up) and while I do need to do some more research to feel really confident in this; but I would say that what you have seen could be a sign of bad heat treat.

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SamuraiBobX26 In reply to Azmal [2010-01-26 03:55:08 +0000 UTC]

Actually, the previous poster is right about the the square transition breaking at the hilt. Believe me, I know from previous experence and a few failed projects. Once I read a few books and talked to a few smiths they informed me about my design flaw. Good luck on your metal working and I can't wait to see your finished product.

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Azmal In reply to SamuraiBobX26 [2010-01-26 19:09:24 +0000 UTC]

Well, squared tang transitions are nothing new, right? If the tang was too narrow then I could agree more easily but beyond that I remain dubious.
What else can you tell me about these failed attempts? And I would be interested to read the sections in the few books that you mentioned.

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SamuraiBobX26 In reply to Azmal [2010-01-27 04:43:38 +0000 UTC]

With the square tang, when the blade in is use it puts more stress on the tang and become a place for a failure to occur. My failed attempts are some of my earlier experiments when I didn't have the references that I have now. I "made" these blades for use and when they were used they broke along the tang.

A good reference is Wayne Goddard's "$50 Knife Shop" and he goes into Tangs on page 66 & 67. Also, in Jim Hrisoulas "The Complete Bladesmith: Forgeing your Way to Perfection" he talks about the corners on a tang in chapter 7 & 8. In Jim Hrisoulas "The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel" he talks about tang construction again on pages 167-171. I think both of those books are out of print, but they can be found on Amazon used.

Also, I was not tring to insult your work. Your blade looks awsome. I was just commenting about what another poster had stated was correct from what I had read and experienced.

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Azmal In reply to SamuraiBobX26 [2010-01-27 06:45:27 +0000 UTC]

No worries, I'm not insulted. And I'm not denying the point, just dubious; I'm not likely to easily believe things without some research or expert opinions. I base my skeptical position on what I've studied with heat treating and all the misconceptions that spring from this very common error. Did your early experiments actually fail due to the tang design, or from improper heat treat? (or even lack of)? If a blade fails it will often fail at the weakest point, and where is that? adding a curve should help but I wonder if its the curve that helps or the fact that you've beefed up that weak point. I understand that geometry reinforces structure but I also suspect that due to the homogeneous nature of modern steel that a square transition tang wouldn't actually create a weak point. It warrants more research.

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SamuraiBobX26 In reply to Azmal [2010-01-28 02:35:23 +0000 UTC]

My early experiments failed due to tang and some improper heat treating. Alot of it was design and that I was forging blades. I didnt have alot of formal training and I learned alot the hard way before I had reference material. Also, at first it was poor selection in steel as I was using scavanged material. But in one of the books that I mentioned tang construction is referenced and in the "Advanced Studies" book it has a whole section on sword making. But to be honest I am a firm believer in full tang construction, so I am biased.

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Azmal In reply to SamuraiBobX26 [2010-01-28 14:48:04 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I agree, full tang is the only way to go for any real length of blade. I suppose one can get by with plug tangs for some daggers, and maybe rat tail tangs for short weapons but I definitely prefer a full solid tang. So I'm right there with you. I just want to find the truth behind the square transition to the tang because in my mind it seems like with good heat treat (and reasonable tang size to begin with) it doesn't matter. And having a bad temper in the blade could easily cause a blade to snap like a dry twig with any impact and I could very easily see this fact (and common occurrence) giving rise to misconceptions (possibly such as it being bad to have 90degree angles at the tang) It could also be that both are true.

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SamuraiBobX26 In reply to Azmal [2010-01-29 03:49:12 +0000 UTC]

Well like I stated the references that I have state that 90 is bad, but then again with a wide tang, good steel, proper heat treating, and proper tempering it might not make a difference any way. If you find some reference material that has something different than what I found can you pelase pass it along. I like getting as much information as I can so I can expand my knowledge and experiment.

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Azmal In reply to Yonaka-Yamako [2010-01-26 03:54:06 +0000 UTC]

Not this one

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DarkworldHero In reply to Azmal [2010-01-30 20:15:51 +0000 UTC]

If you're not going to cut a fuller, then perhaps a bit of etching on the blade?

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