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Velica — The curious case of the niqab
Published: 2010-02-11 01:16:47 +0000 UTC; Views: 18151; Favourites: 102; Downloads: 871
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All across Europe a strange phenomenon is occurring.Both the left and right wing strongly oppose the use of niqāb and the burqa by Muslim women. Months after the minaret ban in Switzerland commotion begun in France, UK, Germany and other European countries to ban the face enveloping garment.
However, and this is in my opinion the curious bit, the reasons behind this opposition are completely different between left and right wingers.
The right bases its argument on security and integration. This is, of course, a mask for the post-9/11 islamophobia and the result of a conservative bunch not liking to see people dressed differently. Maybe the next ban will be the Sikh turbans, then the tatoos, long hair and so on.
At the left the word of order is equality, female emancipation and fight against patriarchy.
From my description of things you can imagine I sit closer to the left than to the right. Yet, I can not agree with any sort of government-endorsed ban on clothing. I too disagree that women should cover themselves for fear of punishment, shame or any sort of oppressive force but it is up to them to initiate the struggle against it.
The western values of freedom, equality and emancipation should not be imposed to anyone. Instead these values should remain strong here amongst us and seduce other cultures to adopt them. If they want.
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Comments: 245
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??
Please elaborate.
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I know, but how is it relevant to the picture?
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Don't do that again.
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Even if I don't like burqas, I still want woman to have a free choice what to wear.
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States whose citizens carry too far religious fervor, and introduce mysticism into everyday life, should be isolated as a colony of lepers. Regardless of religion.
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THE ISLAMIC SCOURGE WILL BE DESTROYED BY THE SWIFT SWORD OF JUSTICE!
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Nope i will fight the enemy.
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Ok brave soldier of internet boredom.
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Two years and i'm off into the mitary i can't wait to go.
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Another fascist with a gun. I feel safer already.
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Yes i'm a fascist for trying to defend the U.S.A i'm sorry that your pea sized brain can't comprehend such things but you are an imbecile. Now good day sir your nothing more than a coward cause unlike you i have the guts to go to war and help my people unlike you.
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As said before, men robbed banks wearing niqabs (burka covers the eyes, the one that shows only the eyes is the niqab). It is a matter of security to see the face of the people you meet, as it could be anyone under the niqab.
About the left.... It's curious that they want to liberate women by removing a woman's right to wear the islamic veil. Because muslims women wear the veil because they want to, by the way. Not because they were forced to.
In the end I believe hijab (veil that covers the hair but shows the whole face) should be allowed, while niqab (veil that covers the face, showing only the eyes) should be banned.
Besides, on the subject of religious freedom, niqab is not actually islamic, hijab is. But niqab is never ever mentioned in the Quran. You don't have to wear it. It's purely a cultural thing, not a religious one.
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How many banks have been robbed by men wearing niqabs? One? Two? Let's say it was five. Is it worth alienating a proportion of our population in order to stop something that, statistically-speaking, isn't really a problem?
Let's ban Halloween masks then. Sure, the masks are worn only once a year, but think of the bank robberies one can do in a day? 
Also, its irrelevant if the reason behind it is religious or not. People want to do wear and, realistically speaking (I'm excluding that one bank robbery that people keep remembering because it fits their narratives), they are not harming any one.
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It's different though, there are terrorists who wear niqab, in fact, niqab is not even mandatory according to the Quran, it's completely optional. It's the muslims that have a more extreme interpretation of the Quran that enforce the use of the niqab. So if I see someone wearing a niqab, I can be sure that even though they are "moderate" (meaning only that they don't kill anyone themselves), they follow a more strict, and thus a more violent, interpretation of the Quran.
I know plenty of moderate muslims that have never killed anyone but fully support the violent punishments stated in the Quran, including the stoning of gays and women.
Halloween masks are not related to religions or twisted ideologies, niqabs are.
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Men have robbed banks wearing burqas. Dressing conservative is one thing but even nuns show their faces.
Quote: The right bases its argument on security and integration. This is, of course, a mask for the post-9/11 islamophobia and the result of a conservative bunch not liking to see people dressed differently. Maybe the next ban will be the Sikh turbans, then the tatoos, long hair and so on.
That had me in stitches. But of course it goes without saying. But of course... There is a 100% guarantee that no other motivation exists behind their actions. None whatsoever... It's all bigotry. I know that because... of course it is. But of course.
Oh my god LOL. You even said islamophobia like its a real word. I suppose that's why Salman Rushdie, spends so much time looking over his shoulder. The guy has a phobia. LOL.
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So men dressed up in Burqas robbing banks is such an endemic problem in Europe that we need to alienate a part of our population by legislating against their habits? This argument is groundless.
Look, I also dislike the idea of women covering their faces. It sounds oppressive and sexist. However, if the women themselves say it is their wish to wear the burqa then let them be. Let them organise themselves and fight against it if they so wish and you can help them in their struggle if they ask you to. But please, PLEASE, stop trying to pass laws telling people what they should and shouldn't wear.
And I agree with you, the correct word should not be Islamophobia because its not a phobia. It should be Islamoparanoia - this underlying idea that all muslims are secretly organising to invade your village, convert you to their religion and take over the world.
I told you this elsewhere because I truly think its a good advice. Befriend a few muslims, visit their neighbourhoods, travel to a muslim country: you'll see that they are pretty much like everyone else, just trying to make ends meet. You may not agree with everything they do (I don't) but then again do you agree with everything christians or jewish do?
I don't want this to be an entrenched and bitter debate between you and me so please lets not spiral into mutual disrespect.
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I almost agreed with your first paragraph until you used the word "groundless." Not every assertion has to be two dimensional. Perhaps it's not an epidemic. But "groundless" is too strong a word. On that note alienate is also a very interesting word. Wouldn't that imply that the full burka is anti alienation and pro integration? Kind of like "So long as I look like a flamingo among penguins I know I'm part of the community. But if I looked like a penguin among penguins I would feel like an outcast."
It is also interesting that you only seem to see one burka where I consistently make a distinction. It's not the burka its the full burka. Nobody is in danger of getting deservedly gang raped because they failed to cover they're hair.
Its ironic that you essentially say that you're not really in the mood for an argument. Because neither am I. But in general I really don't like to walk away from things mid sentence. I suspect I had more energy on Nov 27, 2014. Or perhaps I was less busy. I cant really think of much more to add. As for that whole "don't get behind the anti full Burka law." Don't worry I won't do that. Perhaps in a couple years I might change my mind depending on what the future holds. But as of now I don't really plan on making any waves. I was mostly just laughing at your choice of words. I didn't really intend to be offensive. But upon reflection that wasn't terribly polite of me.
Also I'm very aware that I reused a few words in a very lazy fashion. But I really don't have the time to give my comment a spit shine.
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Mm. As an American-born…American, I can say that white European values have been imposed for centuries, and the US should not be sucking on that venomous, old, dusty tit. Because it is killing us. And we are horrible people.
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Are you white and descend from europeans? If the answer is yes, then how can you despise so much the culture and valuws of your ancestors, YOUR culture? It's common nowadays for white people to despise their origins as if anything white is wrong.
If the answer is no and you are not white, then I do understand how you feel about having the culture of another shoved down your throat.
But you also have to understand that the US was colonized by white europeans who brought their culture with them.
And Europe is the native land of the white race. You wouldn't complain about Hindi traditions and values being imposed in India, the home of the hindi race. So why do you complain about white values and traditions being imposed in the home of the white race?
It would be a problem if it was being imposed in a culture of a different race and culture, but not in Europe. And really, if you don't feel comfortable living in the home of the white race, or in the country created by them, why do you live there?
I'm not white but even I know how ridiculous it is to despise everything that comes from white people is bad.
It's not natural to hate your own race. It is natural to cherish it.
And this is why the US sucks, because it's full of people who hate their own race and the culture of their ancestors.
By the way, computer was created by white people, but curiously you like this white people's creation enough to remain online on it.
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Bitch, I'm Native American. White people did not create this country, they mutilated it.
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Yes we did we created it and we annexed every bit of land that we could take. Also your ancestors experienced the same things the Germanic's had to deal with when fighting Rome two thousand years ago so your not alone in the tribes being taken over by a big empire in this category of history hell the same imperial smear has been going on for as long as humanity has been around.
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Okay, sorry for assuming.
Every single race, EVERY SINGLE RACE in this world has killed, fought and conquered someone else's land and the natives are no exception.
I study History. You want me to make a list to you of all the people enslaved, mutilated, conquered and killed by the Aztecs and Mayas in Mexico and some southern areas of the US? Should I mention the tribes that were made extinct by them long before the europeans even arrived?
Sure, the europeans were not nice at all when they arrived, they didn't care for the natives and wiped them out. That is not okay and I am not justifying it at all. Crimes have no justification, but after a few centuries it's time to let go of the grudge.
I am brazilian, I am part native south american, part african and part white.
Pretty sure some of my ancestors suffered a hell here in the hands of the Portuguese and the Spanish.
But if that awful episode in our history had not happened I wouldn't be here today and my country would not exist.
Lots of time passed since the horrible things happened and it's time to let it go, to stop holding a grudge against people who may or may not descend from those who tormented my ancestors.
Because when you group all the white people as if they were all bad, as if they all descended from criminals, as if they were to blame for their ancestors crimes, you are being bigoted. You cannot be against bigotry while simultaneously being a bigot.
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As a European-born European I have to agree: its a saggy old tit that somehow still seems to spew its bitter milk all over the place.
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Yet it's your home land and you can kick anyone out their guests and they tried killing and invading countless times plus the Muslims have parts of Asia Africa and the Middle east they have plenty of room resources and people to live away from the west.
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Ok, angry internet person with no interest in punctuation. We heard you.
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People need to treat hijab/niqab/burqa wearers with respect and just stop calling them terrorists. What these women hidden in veils are beautiful women, they didn't come to anywhere in the world to terrorize cities, they came to anywhere in the world to be our friends. We need to stop calling these hijab/niqab/burqa wearing women terrorists and start saying that they're our friends.
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i feel people should never tell another person what they CAN'T wear, intolerance of other beliefs, fashions, religion etc, to me is segregation, and puts loads of stress on a minority, i think that is disgusting, if i have my right to live my life my way, and to choose what i wore, it IS MY CHOICE! people shall all do the same, like i would, and show a positive towards a niqab, and it's wearer. salam, is a good word too.
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Thank you for the comment.
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To quote a character from an indie film, "Stupid fucking white man."
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Move to India if you hate living amongst your own so much.
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Yea. We love people who respect other people. So Old-Marcie1234 is welcomed....
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My own are in Oklahoma.
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So you are prejudiced against white people and their ancient culture. That figures. White americans love to hate their own skin colour as if being white made them bad.
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Never assume someone is white.
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I have native ancestors who fought for the confederates and for their new home land the Southern confederacy. Then again my ancestors were mostly mixed races but i hate Islam to it's core.
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The problem is NOT with the Muslim people, the problem is NOT even with the Muslim religion. The problem is with Violent Extremist. (any extreme religions of the world ).
But the Alarm, worry, and concern is in NOT the race, but the Numbers of Extremist. There are Approximately 2 Billion muslims on earth. Only 40% of that 2 Billion are
trying to cut everyones head off and then blow themselves up.
only 40%, thats all.
in comparison of other groups lets just say christian, there are approximately the same amount 2.1 Billion. The radical percentage of that group ( christian ) who want everyone to
drink coolaid is 0.003% of that 2 billion.
so the "reasonable concern" is not only with the 0.003% extremist , but also with the larger 40.% of Extreemist.
please click on the link: www.deviantart.com/art/Islamip…
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And I don't believe it's 40%. I am muslim myself and I would never hurt anyone.
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"concern is in NOT the race"
What race? Arab and Muslim are not synonyms. There are muslims of literally all races in Extremist groups.
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