Comments: 38
Kalgul [2023-01-09 17:55:43 +0000 UTC]
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Myst222007 [2020-08-08 13:02:54 +0000 UTC]
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AnarielRowen [2017-07-16 19:12:14 +0000 UTC]
Well-thought! It's always nice to meet somebody, who likes bothe A-Ph and Faithful.
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MoArtProductions [2015-10-08 04:56:03 +0000 UTC]
I had no idea the Númenóreans were that tall! If that's the case, A mannish warrior that big might even send an uruk shivering.
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ElrondPeredhel [2014-09-27 14:52:03 +0000 UTC]
I can't really add to our two chiefs commentators, here, Zeonista and Libra, but looking (again) at that drawing after reading (again) one of Michael Martinez's essays, called "Would Sandra Bullock be a good Mrs.Isildur ?" (middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/0… , an idea strike me back, which is to make the Akkalabêth as a serie. Honestly some series like HBO's Rome or Game of Thrones strike a close of that sort of idea (after all the Akkalabêth is showing : incest, political intrigues, plots, coup d'états, etc.). Of course such serie will be considerably less dark (even though...) but the huge gallery of character (both described or to made up) males it really interisiting. It could last one, two, three seasons : I think it will need most characters to be the same so it can beggin with the end of the reign of Tar-Palantir and ending with the arrival of the faithfuls in Numenor but will show many events which happened way before Ar-Pharazôn, shortening the time lapse of the Downfall to make it more intense and focus on characters.
I can see it as tale of Elrond to young Estel ending on the revelation of Aragorn's true identity, why not ? That'll make a good ending.
I like Libra's idea of making it a lion hunt. The scene would be a climax of season two () and imagining Elendil saving the King's life would be interisting (shared between the shame of putting himself in danger and the anger of being saved by his future ennemy's son... especially since Pharazôn is the "I need no help" type). And/or, as you said, the meeting ending in shouts and resentment, Amandil openly refusing the king's "forgiveness" as long as he doesn't want to get rid of Sauron's "good advices" and then Elendil stepping in front of his father to protect him of the King's wrath while trying not to hurt him.
Did I need to say I like the art ? Especially since this is all black n' white ! This makes me think I put, at last, my hands on two of Frank's Miller's Sin City and they are a piece of art that only a few can compete with in american's comics, almost as much as Miller is a piece of shit that only a few can compete with as "thinker".
And needless to say I hope I'll be able to see Elendil and Gil-galad in your Middle Earth "catalogue" of weapons and costumes.
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Zireael07 [2014-08-29 07:11:30 +0000 UTC]
This is excellent!
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TenoreRobusto [2014-08-28 02:55:15 +0000 UTC]
So, one thing that Tolkien brings up is that Lord Amandil and Ar-Pharazon were friends in their youth, but they weren't young together. Pharazon and Elendil, Amandil's son, were born one year apart: 3118 and 3119, respectively. It makes much more sense for Pharazon and Elendil to have been 'friends in their youth.' I could perhaps see Amandil as having been a mentor to the young Pharazon. The Lords of Andunie were having children around the age of 100 (or so) by the time Elendil was born, so Amandil was still a young man (espcially for the Line of Andunie) when Pharazon was growing up. They were distant relatives, though how exactly, I'm unsure. I've recently tried to put together a comprehensive family tree for the latter House of Elros, including both the Armenelos and Andunie lines, and things become sticky around Lindorie, Earendur, and Inzilbeth. In any case, they were the kin of the king, and were still effectively concealing their identities as Faithful (much less the leaders of the Faithful) from the ruling line. Perhaps Pharazon looked up to Amandil, who was a mighty sea-captain, and sought to emulate him. Pharazon certainly won his own fame on the seas in his youth, and perhaps he was doing so, in part, to live up to the example set by Amandil.
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Oznerol-1516 [2014-05-24 21:29:36 +0000 UTC]
This is a quite good artwork, Turner. Not only is Númenor-related (always good to see those kind of artworks) but it conveys, as often you achieve, a whole array of stories and fates interwoven. I love the clothes, they seem to be a mix of byzantine/late-roman clothes, while the characters have a greek/homeric feel I love. Your depiction of the Golden King is a as good as always, and it is nice to see you keep your own mental image of the King, while mine substantially changes from time to time, including robes and armor (I should upload those designs I have lurking around in the digital wardrobe). Another nice touch are the weapons, they don't look quite human nor elven, but a mix, strong but elegant and slender. The horn is a good add, reminding us of a certain House of Stewards' ancestral heirloom, maybe a relic from Númenor! Or an imitation of those early models. The theme is also well chosen, I can imagine those proud and tall Lords hunting equally tall and proud stags. Teenager Elendil is quite interesting too, I now ask (both myself and yourself) how would he look at the final battle against Sauron, the towering Dark Lord having killed Gil-Galad now turning his atention to a weary Elendil (I imagine Sauron would be battered and injured too), in full-armor, Nársil in hand, broken shield.
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hhimring [2014-05-12 21:03:29 +0000 UTC]
Those are very interesting thoughts (and you have depicted them well!).
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oOSulimeOo [2014-04-30 10:58:18 +0000 UTC]
I've always found their friendship to be very intriguing. And I totally agree whith Ar-Pharazôn being "magnetic".
Great drawing! The dynamic behind this constellation is really palpable.
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Zeonista [2014-04-27 19:34:32 +0000 UTC]
It's a good scene, one of those talky bits in the stories of olden times from the BBC that I enjoyed watching on PBS as a child. Sort of one of those introductory or linking scenes that I didn't pay much attention to then because I was in impatient hurry for them to move on to the bits where the characters rode horses and whacked at each other with swords. It's a likely scene too given that the two men had been friends, and it's nice to think that even upon the brink of apocalypse they hesitated to part as enemies for ever. Tolkien alwys liked his heroes to enjoy outdoors activity, and a hunting trip would have been an ideal setting for informal but important conference. (Much like the golfing greens of today, in fact. )
Your portrayal of Ar-Pharazon in likeness to Henry VIII (himself an enthusiast for outdoor sports as well as indoor ones) has been noted before, and it bears repetition. Amandil looks good here as a stately, "lordly" looking man who is showing the weight of care he feels for Numenor and its seemingly inevitable fate, no matter what he attempts. I always was struck by Amandil's last appearance, leaving in a small fishing boat to somehow reach Aman and intercede with the Valar for mercy, knowing that things are already too far gone. but feeling bound by love of country & compassion for his countrymen, in the manner of Abraham to plead for the life of Sodom. (But as Tolkien relates as the anonymous chronicler, the good and the wicked had already been separated & judged and were to be dealt with as they had heeded the warnings.)
Elendil was truly known as "the Tall" and "the Fair" among his own race, who were tall and fair as a matter of course, so he must necessarily have been exceptional! Elendil was pretty much a chip off the old block of Amandil, inheriting his father's status and cares, but able to look forward towards Middle-Earth as well as back towards Aman. As a being of stately height & grace he would have tended towards the elven side of the Beorian mix, with the bold deeds left to his own sons. At such a conference he would serve as his father's aide & companion, and doubtless not spoken unless spoken to in the presence of his lordly father and his king. (It must have irked Ar-Pharazon no end to see in Amandil's son the apothesis of everything he and his followers esteemed in a man, but without the vices brought on by unchecked imperial rule.)
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Libra1010 In reply to Zeonista [2014-04-28 20:51:21 +0000 UTC]
I would argue that engaging Sauron in hand-to-hand combat is a Bold Deed by any standards (especially if one believes that Elendil and Gil-Galad literally wrestled with Sauron, whom it is easy to see disdaining weapons so that he might grasp and immolate his enemies through the power of his own hands), although I do tend to see Elendil the Tall as the political genius and standard bearer of the Faithful rather than as a Man of Blood.
I must admit that I can hardly wait to see more of Master Mohan rendition of … well a great many things, but PARTICULARLY Elendil!
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TurnerMohan In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-30 02:40:47 +0000 UTC]
considering that elendil and gilgalad both have named weapons (whose presence on scene, atleast narsil's, is very well documented) i think "wrestled" is a poetic term. I thought the films' choice of a mace for sauron was a nice, appropriate callback to morgoth (though, as Isidur recounts, gilgalad was burned by sauron's hand, a sequence they'd considered for the film, but which didnt make it beyond storyboards) really the scene on the slopes of mt doom (to which i've been giving alot of consideration recently) is a confused and confusing one in terms of mood; sauron's armies and seemingly his whole empire is in it's death throws, they've got him basically cornered (I like to think that if anything the last alliance has caught up to him in flight from the recently destroyed barad-dur) so victory for the free peoples is more-or-less imminent and yet it must be a pretty well understood likelihood by all that - sauron being a powerful maiar with nothing left to him but to attack - the first ones to come at him personally will probably not survive. the film's strategy was a good "epic prologue" simplification, making the plight of the last alliance against the dark lord seem alot more desperate, victory only being won by pure luck (it seems, in the scene as written by tolkien, that such "luck" was bound to happen eventually, rather than sauron just successfully wading through the entire last alliance from the kings on down)
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Libra1010 In reply to TurnerMohan [2014-04-30 17:35:16 +0000 UTC]
I must admit that the Films prologue (starring the Last Alliance) was a considerable part of what prompted my interest in Elendil and Gil-Galad, but I must admit that when my reaction upon realising just how much better than their cinematic counterparts the literary originals did was "Your Majesties, you've been JOBBED!" which while being not very Tolkien-friendly in terms of terminology (I'm not sure the Professor was a wrasslin' man) does seem to be a fairly accurate summation (although I do think that Mr Jackson made a very sound adaption choice in doing so).
I will further admit that I too have been thinking more than a little about the Last Alliance (it's not hard to see the whole affair as the Trojan War of Middle-Earth, a War that brought about the End of an Age and inflicted mighty casualties in the process) and (if pushed to it!) must in all honesty agree that 'wrestled' is probably poetic license … but it's so compelling poetic that I cannot resist taking it just a little more literally than I probably should (compare "They wrestled with Saruon" to 'They duelled Sauron hand-to-hand' and consider which phrase gives you the cooler mental image).
My mental image of the Duel is that it's basically The Dark Lord's last-ditch attempt to spoil the victory of The Last Alliance; he knows that Barad-Dur is about to fall, that his orcs are most dead, his humans nervous and the ring-wraiths likely to be laid to rest sooner than later so he does on his armour and sally forth to challenge The Last Alliance in the most terrifyingly memorable style imaginable.
Given that this is Sauron the Dark Lord it would not seem implausible to suggest that there was more than one layer to this plan; eight years is a long time for a siege to drag out and it seems likely that the bonds of The Last Alliance were fraying just a little at the edges (dwarves, elves and men never being fonder of one another than when they don't have to put up with one another on a daily basis), held together as much by the Respect Elendil and Gil-Galad had earned over the course of their long, formidable careers across the face of Arda as by mutual hatred for Sauron - by challenging the High Kings either Sauron will kill them (robbing the Alliance of their unifying presence) or they will refuse to fight him (robbing themselves of much and more of the authority they derive from their reputation for never shunning a challenge if their soldiers must face it).
Either way, he wins something at least and more to the point I imagine he made an entrance in the most spectacularly terrifying manner possible, doubtless setting siege operations into UTTER TURMOIL for an unspecified duration (a useful achievement in itself); I suspect that he was playing for time and doubtless ASTONISHED that the High King of the Noldor and the High King of Arnor + Gondor actually had the audacity to FIGHT HIM.
His thoughts on being reduced to as pitiful a state as Monty Python's Black Knight (without the black comedy) would doubtless have been as memorable as they were profane if anyone else could hear them; one wonders what he thought when he saw Isildur approaching with the intent of finishing him off …
In any case I definitely see Elendil and Gil-Galad as smart enough to fight Sauron fully armed for Dark Lord, but also more than smart enough to know that they weren't going to come back alive from this particular peak of bad*** heroism whatever happened to Sauron (basically I'd sum up their thoughts at this moment as being "We're doomed … but so is Sauron").
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Zeonista In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-29 17:43:38 +0000 UTC]
I would never denigrate Elendil as a man who sought to avoid danger, and in the final confrontation upon the feet of Mount Doom he immediately went to Gil-Galad's aid with Isildur ans such men as they had at hand, both to end the sally and possibly defeat Sauron, who had finally taken the field in person. However, the duties of leader of the Faithful, and later high king and commander in chief, kept Elendil from the sort of hero stories that people enjoyed. Isildur as an example did such a thing when he took a fruit of the White Tree from it while it was guarded.
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Libra1010 In reply to Zeonista [2014-04-29 18:37:02 +0000 UTC]
Very true regarding Isildur and have no fear; I did not think you were denigrating Elendil the Tall in the least!
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Zeonista In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-29 19:30:58 +0000 UTC]
Tolkien packed as many positive leadership traits into Elendil to make an experienced king and general for the War of the Last Alliance, who is still able to command armies in the field after passing his 200th birthday, no less! TurnerMohan has nicely back-walked that historical image into his earlier days as a young man who is just starting on that road to the seat of the High King.
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TurnerMohan In reply to Zeonista [2014-04-30 02:58:37 +0000 UTC]
Isildur seems like more of a pitbull (in the good sense) than his father. elendil may be a warrior-king, but generally he comes off like practically a holy man (that predestined and practically holy air with which abaraham lincoln is regarded in american popular idiom, accentuated by his grace, his gentility, and his tall stature, is part of what causes a lincolnian influence in my conception of elendil) he has as much in common with figures like moses or noah as he does with any earthly king or warlord (michelangelo's moses - and charlton heston's - with their beards, lightning-blasted hair, and fiery-but-balanced gazes, are another influence) he has that grace, oversight, and otherworldliness to him (traits tolkien's non-elvish characters always refer to as "elvish," part of the professor's relentless eldarphillia, which gets a little tedious, especially after reading the silmarillion and seeing how poorly the elves themselves live up to any such attempt to put them on a moral pedestal) whereas isildur seems to me to be a little too much of a "man" for that; he's impulsive, he wreckless, he's brave. he seems like a fighter, like hurin, or ar-pharazon for that matter (more grant, or even custer, than lincoln) his stunt with the tree - this act of daring heroism, but committed for an article of faith rather than (or atleast before) personal vanity - reminds me a little of saint peter in the garden, especially as depicted in "the passion of the chirst"; he's a humble, faithful man, but he's just too high-testosterone to 'come quietly' like jesus
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Libra1010 In reply to Zeonista [2014-04-29 19:38:58 +0000 UTC]
TRUE! - although I have come to suspect that Gil-Galad effectively occupied a position during the Second Age roughly equivalent to Gandalf in the Third (The Enemy of Sauron), making his experience of Sauron and making life miserable for The Enemy proving invaluable and very nearly invincible when bolstered by the raw numbers of Arnor + Gondor (not to mention the enthusiasm The Faithful showed for settling their score with Sauron).
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Libra1010 In reply to Zeonista [2014-05-01 14:27:21 +0000 UTC]
It does seem remarkably clear that if Gil-Galad had any faults, failing to learn from the tragic examples found from even the briefest study of The Quenta Silmarillion does not seem to be one of them! (in all honesty it's not too hard to imagine him as being a Fingolfin, Fingon and Finrod Felagund/First Age 'Fan' in somewhat the same way Alexander the Great was Homer's most high-functioning, overachieving fanboy).
As ever I've been contemplating Gil-Galad every day or so and a fresh angle on his potential characterisation occurred to me; to the Kings of Numenor (which I have come to regard as something of a sister-realm to Lindon, as well as Vice Versa) Gil-Galad must be the eternal Rival, the 'Brother King' against whom they and their ancestors have had to measure themselves since the dawn of the Second Age.
Consider it from their perspective; he's the only real Peer with whom they're likely to be well-acquainted, he's handsomer than them, probably more powerful than them in person and likely wiser than them, worst of all he's not just older than them and arguably better than them he's IMMORTAL, therefore he's only likely to get Even BETTER - I wonder if the bitterness of the Kings and their most fanatic followers began as a 'we'll beat big brother at his own game!' sort of sibling rivalry (possibly at the time of Tar-Aldarion), slowly growing embittered as Big Brother remained steadfastly awesome while Little Brother came and went, then finally mutating into the kind of jingoism that treated Numenor's only friendly rival as The Enemy because Gil-Galad just kept acting with infuriating patience.
The irony is that Gil-Galad has always been too busy being a Good King and staring down The Eye of Sauron to play that sort of game of one-upmanship and would REALLY prefer it if Numenor got over it's own Napoleon complex so the Kingdoms of the Elves and the Elf-Friends can FINALLY do what The Union of Maedhros set out to do (and died trying).
Basically it's as if Gil-Galad is the eternal Fingolfin to Numenor's Curufin!
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Libra1010 In reply to ElrondPeredhel [2014-10-02 19:39:31 +0000 UTC]
Unfortunately I sometimes wonder if such a childhood were not the rule, rather than the exception in Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears ...
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Zeonista In reply to Libra1010 [2014-05-01 19:08:26 +0000 UTC]
As per Gil-Galad's relations with imperial-era Numenor, I suspect that the Faithful were called upon to provide liaison services. They were the closest, in terms of distance and attitude, so Numenor thereby could deal with Lindon without anyone becoming offended. The texts concerning the Second Age indicate the Numenorians of the King's Men wished to become as Elves in terms of perpetual life and vitality, but at the same time they did not wish to displace or replace the Elves themselves, at least not in the lands where Elves lived who had been the allies and patrons of the Edain. It was a small but significant difference, which in the end probably prevented a lot of trouble. Also, the Faithful in turn kept a buffer region of lightly settled country between themselves and the Elves wherever possible, to prevent envy from rising again in their midst. As long as the Elves were viewed as friendly visitors from distant lands, there could be no familiarity to bring on the temptation which led to the Downfall.
I would say that Gil-Galad hoped that Numenor would repent of her ways and return to her status as the summit of Human accomplishment. In this he as so many others were to be sorely disappointed, yet he might say that in the Faithful the best part of Numenor lived on. Numenor, even for bad reasons, had done Lindon and the other elven realms a service by curtailing Sauronic power and forcing it east of Anduin and the ocean coasts. It bears remembering that before Ar-Pharazon's folly of forcing Sauron into submission, the imperial kingdom of Numenor, despite its rapacious nature, was no friend of Mordor, and Sauron had turned to the East to build up strength after being forced out of Eriador, Rhovanion, and Harad. The Elves thereby enjoyed a respite from fighting, and could conserve their strength and keep the Three Rings safely hidden. Elendil was a natural friend and ally, so Lindon & the other Elven realms who acknowledged Gil-Galad's role as spokesman could deal with the Realms in Exile in peace and harmony.
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Libra1010 In reply to Zeonista [2014-05-02 09:53:58 +0000 UTC]
Zeonista, you articulate very well the most plausible reasons for the survival of The Faithful even at the zenith of the King's Men (which I would argue came BEFORE Ar-Pharazon, who seems to have been an even-handed tyrant if nothing else) and why those who acted out against the Elf-Friends never quite had the nerve to carry war against the Elves themselves: the latter made themselves very useful taking the fight to The Enemy so that no son or grandson of Numenor need fall in defence of The Land of the Star or it's outposts, the former were very likely the only ones whom Gil-Galad would deal with (possibly in the person of Master Elrond, looking to preserve his distant kin in the manner one would expect of a King's Herald - by refusing to communicate with anyone else, perhaps - I wonder if the brother of Elros Tar-Minyatur was ever a regular visitor to Numenor?).
I would also argue that this desire to become as the Elves were - and in the King's Men the bitterness that sunk in when they realised that they never could quite complete that transformation by virtue of being Men - does seem to support my idea for depicting Gil-Galad as something of a 'friendly' rival in the mind of Ar-Pharazon (albeit probably not in the mind of Gil-Galad who had bigger worries - first surviving Sauron and then building the coalition that would lay the power of The Enemy in ruins for almost an Age, probably while simultaneously worrying about this 'Great Armament' ongoing in Numenor).
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TurnerMohan In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-30 02:22:41 +0000 UTC]
I don't know. you could say they were equivalent to one another or you could just as easily (and truthfully) say they were not. for one thing gandalf (and the other wizards too) is the same type of being as sauron, they both existed before the world, helped sing it into being, and function therein as these angelic agents, neither of them are part of the children of god. I'd mentioned before that i think the "wise" in middle-earth (who really seem to be mostly elves, not wizards) are kind of peers of sauron, having shared the world with him for these barely-conceiveable (to mortal men) thousands of years, and having functioned as eachother's enemies from afar (and having been wounded by him, as with what happens to elrond's wife) but with gandalf that peership goes much deeper, and especially in that last area (how they can be hurt by sauron) i think gandalf is different. the elves are children of the world, they have families, they have roots, whereas the istari are agents sent to middle-earth for the purpose of contesting sauron. It's a different ball game for them, and I think gandalf can (and tends to) take more risks (certainly with his own person) than the elves do, in fighting sauron (i tend to see the istari, and especially gandalf, as part ancient mystics - of any culture -, part john lecarre-style agents). Gil galad on the other hand is just doing what a good elven king (who's heads-up enough to see sauron for what he is) would do, but then, as i've said before (and as I think the "silmarillion for noobs" touched upon most satisfyingly) i think gil-galad is a pretty woefully underdeveloped character (especially on account of how he doesnt really "write himself" like ar pharazon or amandil, or does so, but to less flawed, less human, and therefore more boring effect)
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Libra1010 In reply to TurnerMohan [2014-04-30 17:56:09 +0000 UTC]
I fully agree with you that Gandalf is definitely operating on another level when it comes to doing damage to Sauron's schemes, although I'd like to imagine that when The Powers sent their Wizards to Middle-Earth they were thinking something on the order of "Well if the Last Alliance proved anything it's that all Our Heroes need is for us to level the playing field - that's your cue wizards, don't come back until the final moves have been played out!"
To be honest I find Gil-Galad growing more clear in my head as I think on him; basically he's NEMESIS to any Dark Lord, the sort of King who studies the mistakes of the past and very carefully does not repeat them (which doubtless makes him cautious to the point of paranoia but also SMART - I imagine that what he needed was something to balance the scales, weight of Power generally favouring Sauron prior to The Last Alliance, before he would then proceed to swing the balance in favour of the Free Peoples until he'd cracked Sauron's skull with the scales).
In a nutshell I see him as the Sherlock Holmes to Sauron's Professor Moriarty, with the unfortunate wrinkle that while he failed to return from Reichenbach Falls his enemy did … eventually and only in crippled form (amusingly this makes Elendil Doctor Watson - although one of the less 'comic relief' versions of the character); it occurs to me that while I usually imagine Gil-Galad as fair-haired as a scion of Finarfin it would be almost as easy to see him played by the late, great Jeremy Brett as it is to see the latter play Master Elrond.
One could also point out that of all the High Kings in Exile Gil-Galad, the last and some might argue the least of them, reigned the longest (for the entirety of the Second Age in fact), despite there being relations who arguably had a stronger claim to the title and despite the enmity of Sauron - which argues that he was never an opponent to be trifled with! (I actually see him as a stronger candidate for the 'gleaming uncomplicated heroism' approach than Fingolfin - whom I see as a bit more troubled by his decision to leave Valinor and his wife to follow his Brother into folly, even if it was more for his people than for the sake of Feanor - although I must admit that this is quite arguable).
I hope that this is helpful and shall continue to do my best to help work out a memorable depiction of Gil-Galad! (from admittedly-scarce and scant mentions in the text).
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Libra1010 [2014-04-26 19:39:03 +0000 UTC]
It is entirely probable that Amandil may be prematurely aged and unflinchingly stubborn due to consistent use of the Palantiri which have been gifted to his House; I've always suspected that they were one of the pillars (along with common sense, genuine piety and human stubbornness) of The Faithful's resistance to Sauron.
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Libra1010 [2014-04-26 19:15:53 +0000 UTC]
Research can lead you down strange roads; I was looking through lists of Tallest Leading men and have discovered that not only is Mr David Hasselhoff taller than Mr Liam Neeson, Mr James Cromwell is taller than either of them (for the record he's 6'7, whereas The Hoff is 6'5 and Mr Neeson is 6'4).
The things you learn …
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Libra1010 [2014-04-26 18:33:06 +0000 UTC]
Master Mohan, I would particularly like to compliment you on producing this image since it's generally a wonderful little character study (Ar-Pharazon: "Put that bow down and give me a bro-hug man!; you know how, it should be EASY" Amandil: "Things aren't so easy as they used to be, King of Men" Elendil: "Father I love you, Ar-Pharazon I respect you, but this would be a lot easier if BOTH of you could put aside your stiff-necked pride") and a fine illustration of three of the more important Dramatis Personae in the Akallabeth to boot!
I must say that this 'deleted scene' is particularly poignant if one places it not long before the one in which you show Sauron finally sinking his hook into the King's bruised ego - it's interesting to wonder if oncoming old age would have been quite such an all-consuming tragedy for Ar-Pharazon and his Kingdom if he'd still had someone he could talk WITH like a man, rather than talk TO as the mightiest tyrant in the history if Middle-Earth or if Amandil would have sailed off to his uncertain fate if he had been obliged to leave behind a still-beloved friend whom he could by no means commend to the care of his equally-beloved heir.
I admit that I tend to see this afternoon ending in heated disappointment; two proud, stubborn men who have known each other all their lives but never quite understood one another failing to put their differences aside to mutual tragedy - and Elendil the Tall, looking on and hopefully learning lessons from the afternoon (I tend to see him as the sort of Believer who is as practical as he is pious - I doubt he could have kept his feet in Sauron's Numenor and made his final escape, never mind establish Arnor, Gondor and the Last Alliance afterwards were he not).
I'm also amused by the mental image that somewhere off-screen there's a whole Hunt of lords getting a good look at Elendil the Tall for the first time and glowering at him, doubtless thinking "What in Arda do they FEED them in Andunie?!?" right next to a few of their aunts, cousins or sisters thinking "There are worse ways to become the next Lady of Andunie than by sipping at THAT tall drink of water" which might help explain some of the glowers!
It's even more amusing if one imagines Ar-Pharazon taking all this in at a glance and proclaiming with his most boyish grin that henceforth the heir of Amandil must be 'Elendil the Fair' for "he's still just a little lad" while Elendil flashes him a smile like a flash of sunlight on a rainy day … and Amandil sticks to his guns, as a man of principle should in the face of even his most beloved friend, when that friend happens to be treating The Devil as his personal Favourite.
No matter the cost to himself.
I am also mightily amused by the mental image of Elendil the Tall as a pathological charmer who never QUITE moved on from 'Prince Charming' to 'Don Juan' (quite possibly because he was MUCH better husband material than Tar-Aldarion ever was or perhaps just more fortunate in his choice of spouse).
I'll close by saying that the image of Ar-Pharazon wearing a pink tunic has made my day! (it has also moved me to wonder what colour Amandil and Elendil ought to wear; my guess is that the former would make his personal political statement in white, while the latter night well wear something mostly white but with some green or red to add a little colour).
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TurnerMohan In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-26 19:40:41 +0000 UTC]
for elendil (and this might go further to explain my nay saying of eric bana) i wanted him to look classically handsome while not really classically proportioned, his shoulders are too narrow, his hips too wide, his limbs, neck (and even his head) taller and thinner in proportion to themselves than a normal person's would be. Though he pulls it off gracefully and without physical inhibitors, i wanted him to look somewhat like (in purely scientific, non romantic, non-tolkienien terms) he might have some kind of gigantism. Very tall people are often deceptively large and heavy (the current world's tallest is a beanpole at just over 300lbs) and i wanted elendil to look very lengthy and gracile beside his more taut, compact father and dense, barrel chested king (also, you know, he's young still)
yes i imagine there are plenty of women in numenor, regardless of spiritual or political affiliation, who would climb that, and plenty of kingsmen who would want to take a swing at him; if you're tall but not especially wide, alot of guys - particularly in bars, god i know that feel bro - want to find out if they could take you (though at eight feet elendil might rule out all but the most bodacious of that ilk) I imagine ar-pharazon, whose probably known him since he was a child, is well used to the shock by now, to the point where it's not really a thing anymore (the king coining "the fair" for him amuses me)
i think what partially inspired the idea of a hunt was the boar hunt that open's up kurosawa's RAN. I imagine a similar deal; the lords and their enteurage (they should really be on horseback, but horses are hell on a composition unless it's going to be, you know, about the horses) they bring down the beast (likely amandil does) they have lunch on the grass, arguments ensue, harsh words are traided. friendships are broken, political enemies snicker, all that.
I can see ar-pharazon as being not just politically but also interpersonally something of a tyrant, he's capable of tact (and in an instance like this might go out of his way to table his own domineering way) but he's a bit like hank from breaking bad; even friendly interactions are strained affairs, just by the natural forcefulness of the man, actually hank and walt fall into that same kind of robert baratheon and ned stark type of strong man/smart man friendship (though subtler and less "game of thronesy") that i see as a decent template for pharazon and amandil (not sure if you're a bad fan)
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Libra1010 In reply to TurnerMohan [2014-04-27 10:28:49 +0000 UTC]
My dear fellow I'm not a bad fan, I'm the very best kind and don't you forget it!
Quip aside, I'm not honestly very well-acquainted with 'Breaking Bad' although I do have some acquaintance with the basic concept - it's basically the origin of a Batman Villain, albeit without the Bat, if you'll forgive the comparison - I admit that I'm not brave enough to watch some poor soul slide down the slippery slope of their own bad conscience, since my viewing tastes tend to incline towards something a bit less traumatic … unless I've read the book first and therefore have fair warning (and I have very DEFINITE taste in fiction).
I must admit that when it comes to Crime dramas 'Castle' or 'Sherlock' is more my sort of thing.
I do think I understand what you mean when you describe Ar-Pharazon's manner; one gets the idea that he's the sort of Tyrant who believes everything he says, ESPECIALLY the 'lies, Damn Lies and POLITICS' that make up so much of any sovereigns day - whatever his failings, I fear insincerity is not numbered amongst them which makes him even MORE dangerous, especially after Sauron subtly influences his thinking (or at least his focus).
Reading your description of Ar-Pharazon and Amandil interacting, I really am reminded of that early scene in 'Ben-Hur' where Messalla is being taken back to the bosom of the House of Hur, exudes charm and then casually lets drop the rather chilling fact that he secured at least one of those lovely souvenirs he brought as gifts to the ladies of the House amidst the ruin of a city taken by storm (thoughts turn to the fate of the former owner in the mind of everyone but the Roman and find nothing pretty waiting there), then gets positively distressed when his boyhood chum proves that he doesn't particularly fancy walking over the bodies of his neighbours to achieve Power … honestly the first half-hour or so of 'Ben-Hur' (before that unfortunate incident with the roof-tile) really settled my mental image of the relationship between the Golden King and the Chief of the Faithful (Ar-Pharazon just never quite understanding that not only was his best pal not comfortable with the idea of UNLIMITED POWER, he actually hated the thought of the tyranny that would be visited upon the 'Middle Men' if only due to the dishonour that would accrue to the name of Numenor thereafter).
As far as the hunt itself goes, I quite like the idea that Ar-Pharazon has deliberately imported LIONS to his personal hunting preserve, for his exclusive pleasure (because seriously, DEER? deer is for DINNER, not for the sport of a Real Man!); I suspect that the symbolism of his dragging some poor beast over half the world simply so he can kill it for sport is a useful display of his mindset in a nutshell (the beast deserves a quick death and not being turned into a circus animal in the style of the Colosseum - besides, consider the threat it would pose to the neighbour's cattle … and the neighbours, for I doubt that the Edain introduced predatory beasts to Numenor along with their livestock).
Amandil killing a lion with a bow-and-arrow (a technique which I believe was employed by the Assyrians and other Ancient cultures, along with more modern archery fanatics) also helps indicate that while the old man may be a True Believer and reduced to political impotence, he's by no means a pushover in person (hence his continuing survival as Loyal Opposition).
I would also like to note that your depiction of the young Elendil is very excellent, that you may be assured that my reaction to a man the better part of a foot taller than me is definitely in the 'Flight' rather than the 'Fight' category (quite possibly because I'm a teetotaller) and that you may be amused to know that my reaction to seeing your rumination on women looking to 'climb that' was "They'll need a lot of rope!" (or a lift, although I suspect that bit of assistance would only be extended to Mrs Elendil, whom it amuses me to imagine as a lady less than 3/4s his height, but much broader).
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TurnerMohan In reply to Gabbanoche [2014-04-26 14:32:00 +0000 UTC]
that was a partial inspiration.
yep, it's ink
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Libra1010 In reply to TurnerMohan [2014-04-26 17:52:23 +0000 UTC]
Given the topic I think it only fair to say here that it quite recently occurred to me that with contact lenses to give him grey eyes Mr Eric Bana would be a pretty perfect casting choice for Elendil the Tall at this point in his career (especially as Mr Bana appeared in Troy); he has the right ability to play the sort of officer and gentleman who can REALLY ruin your day (and wreck your anatomy) if you assume that he's being patient and polite because he's afraid YOU will hurt HIM if he isn't …
I'll also note that Mr Brendan Gleeson is heck of an actor, but not nearly pretty enough to play Henry VIII!
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TurnerMohan In reply to Libra1010 [2014-04-26 18:10:44 +0000 UTC]
eric bana's too latin lover-y for the character, atleast as i see him (we are talking about somebody who basically functions as this old testament prophet) and, needless to say, he's not long enough.
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Libra1010 In reply to TurnerMohan [2014-04-26 19:09:07 +0000 UTC]
But then nobody outside a carnival sideshow or a doctor's office actually IS! (Real Life being so tediously circumscribed by those pesky Laws of Physics, even in Biology).
On the other hand he's still 6'2 which in all fairness isn't exactly diminutive (at least from the perspective of someone who can only reach 6'0 in cowboy boots and at least three months growth of hair … mine CURLS, although it's more of a 'Euro' than an 'Afro'), although I do understand your reservation that he might be a tad romantic-looking for an Old Testament-type (except perhaps King David who didn't earn the name 'Beloved' by wearing a Great Stone Face - admittedly David WAS a 'Man of Blood' which implies that his company was never dull whatever else it might be).
To be honest one idea that struck me recently was that while Amandil would definitely be a real Old Testament Judge-type (one step short of a Prophet, an archetype which I see Tar-Palantir as filling with somewhat unearthly charm and unsettling focus - a bit like Robert Powell in 'Jesus of Nazareth'); Elendil on the other hand I see as more like the better sort of Biblical King (or perhaps someone who made the list of the Medieval Nine Worthies), more deeply invested in balancing worldly affairs with heavenly virtues for the good of his countrymen, less perfect but with the complexities of his character balancing in favour of his virtues, rather than his vices.
Someone willing to get his hands dirty if he has, but one man enough to humble himself in repentance rather than pretend that he did something unquestionably noble thereby (an idea that I think took root when you compared Elendil to Abraham Lincoln). I admit that this might be as much a product of my fondness for heroes who are actually likeable, despite being practically perfect in every way.
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