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TheLemonSage — The Sage's Corner vol XI: Contains Spoilers
Published: 2014-06-24 02:09:32 +0000 UTC; Views: 14405; Favourites: 1; Downloads: 0
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Hello all! First let me thank all those that have taken the time to read and review as always. Today’s Sage Corner is going to be used to post my thoughts on the latest chapter of the manga Chp. 681. As any one that tracked my conversation on it with nacho2991 knows I wasn’t a huge fan of the revelation that everyone has been dancing to Black Zetsu’s tune. I mean as people can probably tell this chapter just really rubbed me the wrong way and I guess the biggest reason is that it just feels like lazy storytelling to me.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of suddenly turning a story on its head with a big surprise reveal. When it’s done correctly that is, and for me the way it is done correctly is when it is done in a way that makes you look back through the story and say, damn how did I miss that. For example, the movie Fight Club to me is one of the best examples of a surprise reveal done correctly. For those that haven’t seen the movie I won’t ruin it, but it’s the kind that makes you go back and realize that the truth has been there all along.
But this… this to me just felt like Kishimoto wrote himself into a corner and then had to choose Black Zetsu as the great puppeteer because by that point in the story he had killed everyone else in Akatsuki. Since, there was absolutely no build up to it, he could have pointed to random ninja number 12 as the mastermind of the whole thing and it would have had the same impact.
Now some people have stated that they felt there had to be more to Madara’s plot then meets the eye. And to that I say, that’s understandable, but it was only a hunch. Now if someone told me that they knew Black Zetsu was behind it, well I would have to call that person a liar. And that I guess is the crux of my problem with this reveal. I just feel that with 680 chapters already said and done before this one, there should have been some sign of Black Zetsu was working behind the scenes. Instead, we’re told everything he did in flashbacks, even stuff that happened within the time frame the manga takes places. Heck, an actual scene of Black Zetsu revealing Madara’s body to Kabuto would be enough to make people question what is going on, especially when one considers how negatively Tobi reacted to Madara being in that Coffin. It might not have revealed his connection to Kaguya, but it would have clued readers into the fact that he is working his own angle.
Other things I didn’t like about the chapter are:
1: Black Zetsu can apparently read and write in the language found on the tablet under the Uchiha Shrine despite possessing neither ocular jutsu.
2: He’s been working behind the scenes influencing those who have inherited the wills of the children the Sage of the Six Paths had, but apparently in a way that the Sage who has been monitoring those heirs didn’t detect.
3. Now the Sharingan as an ocular jutsu not only can be cast on a person who was fighting blind as Kabuto was in his fight with Itachi, and Sasuke. But the jutsu which warps reality can be learned after death as apparently was the case with Madara and how he survived his last fight with the 1st Hokage.
So needless to say I was not a huge fan of this development. It’s a shame to as Kishimoto has proven he could set the stage properly for a reveal. I mean to me he did handle the revelation that the fake Madara was Tobi quite well. I mean first we get Kakashi Gaiden between Naruto and Naruto Shippuden which on the surface is just an early story of Kakashi. The low and behind after the events of that arc we’re introduced to Tobi who just so happened to were a mask on the same side where Obito would have lost his Sharingan. The we learn he also is perhaps a Uchiha because he has the Sharingan as well. We can even accept that he has some dealing with Madara perhaps because he was calling himself it when we learn he’s is the true power in Akastuki. We are thrown for a small loop when we learn he did have a second Sharingan but then finally we learn the truth when Naruto breaks his mask. That to me is setting the stage properly. It allows the readers a chance to form an opinion as opposed to what we’ve been getting where the event happens out of the blue for simple shock value.
In any case, now that I’ve gotten that out of my system I’m sure some people are wondering what effect this will have on the story. Well to answer, I feel that I have to incorporate it into the world of Eroninja, fortunately as a result of the debate I had with Nacho I’ve already come up with how I plan to do it. The reason why I feel I have to stay true to the source material is because in my opinion it gives Eroninja a more legitimate feel.
Which brings us to Kaguya, and ultimately why as I alluded to the path for her to appear in the story, let alone possibly join the Harem is a long and twisty one. It was asked if things in the story would have to reach a similar point as they have in the manga for her to appear. The answer to that question is yes. If we are to believe that it took Black Zetsu untold millennia to finally resurrect Kaguya then it stands to reason that the conditions for said resurrection aren’t easily achieved. Not to mention that as of right now in Eroninja the plan that led to the 4th Great Shinobi War lies in ruins. I mean for example 8 of 9 Bijuu are now human. The Statue is sealed once more and the Rinnegan are still in Konan’s possession. It would seem to me that the Black Zetsu in Eroninja needs to go back to the drawing board.
Fortunately though, outside of changing a few of the motivations for the characters behind upcoming events, none of what I had planned is going to be affected by the latest developments in the manga. It wouldn’t be until Eroninja: Part II where most of these newest story developments begin to have a noticeable impact anyway, although some of the foreshadowing will happen in Part I.
I should hopefully be finishing the newest chapter in time to post is around June 29th or 30th. I then plan to work on the next chapter of Limelight and perhaps another chapter of the Little Black Book series. The LBB chapter will focus on what happened to the women of Kanji’s harem after his death. Then it would be back to Eroninja proper where the chapter after the one Mikoto stars in would be the start of an Arc I like to call the Expanding Territories. Those chapters will be more self-contained as they concentrate on Naruto expanding his influence.
Well thank you for letting me get that off my chest, and again thank you to everyone that reads and reviews. So until next time take care, sincerely The Lemon Sage.
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Comments: 37
In the group EroNinjaOfficial1
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I have an idea on how Kaguya could show up, and rather soon. I'm sure it's not as good as whatever you have planned, since you know what's going to happen in your story and I don't. But I'd still like to toss it out there if you're interested?
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I alread know the storyline that I'm going to go with. But I'm always interested in other people's thoughts.
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Well back when the Ten-tails first showed up I mentioned that I thought it was creepy as hell and was glad that it likely wouldn't be in your story. You mentioned that it might still show up. I figured that meant at some point the Ten-tails would be given a human form like the other biju. But now we know that the Ten-tails is actually Kaguya fused with the god tree. I figured Kaguya could be the something Sage sensed in the statue. All it takes is Sage being a little curious about the Ten-tails and attempting to talk to it a few times and boom. Instant bunny girl.
Speaking of bunny girls. oddmachine.deviantart.com/art/… I thought you'd like this. Well whatever. I'm sure you have something better planned. My poor explanation probably didn't help. Either way, looking forward to the Mikoto chapter. Later.
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The something else Sage sensed was the piece of the Eight-Tails that became Urd, which works out especially since if Black Zetsu held Kguya's will that would explain why it was a mindless beast for so long until Black Zetsu reintroduced it via his stabbing Madara. The path I plan to take should hopefully show Zetsu using the cunning that he had been acredit in the previous chapter although on a much faster timeline then it previously took.
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Nice. Though I didn't mean the anomaly that was sealed with the Six-tails and the Five-tails. I meant when Kiyomi asked if the biju were merging inside the statue and Sage said they weren't but something inside the statue was awakening. But your way sounds interesting, plus you're the author, so let's go with your plan.
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That is what I associated with the pupils appearing in the eyes every time it absorbed a tailed beast. But it would have fell back into slumber with them all being removed.
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Not to burst your bubble, but I don't think Zetsu is a literal manifestacion of Kaguya. There are several reasons for this, like he calls himself Kaguya's Child, considers himself a himself, wasn't he far away from Madara when Madara was persuaded to absord the shiju? It is implied very heavely that he is an entidy that sole purpose is to free Kaguya's from her son's seal.
I think also that simply powering up the husk or the Outer Demonic Statue is not enough to break the seal, and that is why it is mindless at the beginning and "simplier" to control. Also why it was essential to achive the Infinite Tsukuyomi, that technique is what fully freed her from the moon.
I don't mind or am against of you making your own version thought, you always have great ideas and write them magnifently
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I understand that it has a separate personality, but at the same time if the statue was Kaguya then Madara should have turned into her after becoming the jinchuriki of the ten-tails. Yet he didn't until Zetsu stabbed him, so my guess is that while he still had a distinct personality, he also was carrying around some part of her consciousness which he had to return. Otherwise there really was no point in stabbing him.
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Ok, I see what you mean. Basically he is carry the key to free her, like Jiraya and then the toad scroll were for Naruto's seal. And you plan to use that fact to free her, but did you screw them over by "tainting" the original chakra of biju? So she isn't going to be ever fully free when you release her?
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I have a few thoughts on that, but won't elaborate since I want to keep people guessing. I'll go into my explanation when the time comes.
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Ok, I know you don't do spoilers, but maybe a really small tiny hint? I am a masochist when it comes to anticipation.
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Sorry, I can't. Explaining it or even a hint would probably give it away. But you won't have to wait until the sequel to get an idea. This idea was already going to happen long before the recent developments in the manga. I will say that some of the first signs of it will appear before I post all the chapters in the list I posted in Sage's Corner VII.
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Ok, Thanks for the reply. I will make sure to read the chapters as throughtly as possible.
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really interested to see how you plan on turning Kaguya even though I know it will take a long time to get there but I am a very patient man plus I know it will be worth the wait. really looking forward to the Mikoto chapter btw, please keep up the excellent work
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Well thank you for your compliments Sage, glad to be of help. As for the Byakugan, I feel that it was always meant for close-combat, well to have limited abilities, and that it is actually an eye power that Kaguya had before she eat the fruit, since it is implied that she is Alien, along that she already had the horns too.
I also have a problem with third creepy eye, but not with the horns. Such read "Reaching for a Dream" by NoodleHammer or at least the last chapter to get an idea of what you could do with them, great read too.
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You're quite welcome.
I don't believe I will be going with the alien route.
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Ok.
Now that I had time to think all the way through, and you talked a lot of sense into me, I admit that my original assement of Zetsu is missing a vital point. Going by what is being flung at us from his %ss, he is a big manipulator, smart, has "done" difficult stuff and has tons of experience, but his "best" or most promate trait is that he is an opportunist. I think that he did not have as much influence as he boasted and did not instigate a lot of the events, such let it run it's course and took advantage.
An example is the anamosity between the Uchiha and Senju. He didn't push Indra to fight Asura but made sure that he stayed bitter after his defeat, thus the rivalry between the clans and made sure the clans hated each other anytime a truce would be tried to be achieve so that the "succesors" would be fighting each other. So that one needed to reach the Rinnengan to beat the other. Heck he gave clues to this by stating that he just wacth how Madara and Harashima grew up fighting each other, hoping for one of them to achive the great shi...eye. Only after Madara achive the eye did he take a more active role in monotaring Madara and Obito in their plan to achieve the Eternal Illusions.
Him showing Kabuto Madara's body was just an opportunity that would make Madara come out faster and futher confused the situation and make things go his way.
The era of warring clans was perfect for him since he didn't to do much for the blood to flow, in the Village era he just needed to make sure that Madara and later Obito wanted to achive the Moon eye Plan, aside that he didn't do much else than mess up the tablet. He didn't act like Kabuto from Eroninja by creating his own opportunities, just took advantage of what was going on already and never showed his hand. That is most likely no one found about the bast#$%, always laying low until his big chance came by the name of Madara.
Only now that he has suffered such massive set back in your story does he need to do a lot more shit and show his hand, which is when Naruto and company would find out about him.
I think that he is acting like a little kid that is taking way more credit than he deserve since it fell mostly into his lap and he just made sure to do little nugges to get his desire outcome.
What do you think Sage?
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I mean that could all be possible, the problem that I have with it though is that there was no indication of this shown in the manga before now. Plus there is a lot of stuff in his explanation that is rather hard to swallow. For example, I still can't buy how Madara thought Black Zetsu was an extension of his will. Or, how he rewrote the tablet beneath the Uchiha shrine when he shouldn't have even been able to read it, let alone write anything coheriently.
But I do agree that a lot of what Zetsu did was probably sit back and wait for the right conditions to appear in which he could bring back Kaguya.
For Kabuto though, I just find it strange that he wouldn't question Black Zetsu's motives in showing him Madara's body. But then again Kabuto's own motives were never made clear either.
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It is lazy story writting like you said, that is why i said, "what is being flung at us from his %ss", and there still at lot of holes in what Zetsu could have done and waaay more BS in what he said he did.
I think Kabuto did question that a lot, like i said before, but in the manga he already thought that Edo tensei was the ultimate jutsu, capable of giving you an army with total "loyal" soldiers. For me he did question Zetsu motives, he just never question his own jutsu. Part of the reason he was defeated was due to this, the other was that he is or was an empty person that did not know what to do with himself without being told why. That is why I think he found Naruto facinaiting, someone that pick his own path regarless of the obstacles, planted part of Orochimaru into his being, since the snake was his "anchor" for so long, and helped Obito.
In your story Kabuto is becoming his own person in his persuit of Naruto, than that is an other plot that love and enjoy in Eroninja
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The only thing I can think of is 1.He can rewrite it because he's connected to KAguya. HE probly knew what it said from the start and rewrote it accordingly.
2. He might not have came up directly to Kabuto, but so much as secretly directed him to a path to getting his DNA or whatever.
I honestly like the whole Black Zetsu thing, he never had much of doing anything hell even White Z had more spotlight. All in all I just wanna know is this: Why a Zetsu Zombie army?
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I agree with Sage on those points, and we were shown that Zetsu did give the body to Kabuto. Like Sage said, Kishimoto was in a corner of his own making, he couldn't introduce someone new, bring back someone else from the dead so he picked Black Zetsu. I do get the feeling that he choose this awhile ago, before Madara's full resurrection, due to Zetsu survival and him possesing people.
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Sorry, again I don't believe a connection to Kaguya should be enough to counteract the protections that must have been on the tablet that made it necessary to have Sharingan and the Rinneagan. Even if you know what something should say, I bet you would have a hard time rewriting it if you aren't sure what you are writing. It would probably sound like an illterate child written it, not the father of ninjutsu.
I think he would question his good future in stumbling on the corpse of Madara Uchiha even more if he was secretly directed to it. I mean Black Zetsu even described it as being similar to finding a mountain of treasure. It's kind of hard to imagine most people giving it up willing and if it was so well hidden for so long a subtle hint wouldn't be enough to make Kabuto believe enough to waste the energy searching for it.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't enjoy it, but you kind of allude to my problem with it. He didn't have much of anytthing to do with anyone. His only interactions for the most part was being more serious verision of White Zetsu, but that is it.
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Well, there have been worse reveals in Naruto. Remember before the Pain arc, when it was finally confirmed that Naruto is Minato's son? The biggest reveal in that chapter was their names. Now I can't help but wonder if Naruto will use Talk no Jutsu on Kaguya - LOL.
BTW, about Eroninja per say, it just struck me that if Black Zetsu is immortal, so are Naruto and his harem. For a moment I thought the two factions would enter a secretive war in the shadows, with Zetsu attempting to bring war to the world for Kaguya's return, and Naruto's group countering him through the ages. Since you're going for a similar resolution as the manga, this won't happen, but I thought it'd be interesting.
chrishm : I do agree with you on the Byakugan. I mean, it was supposed to be one of the three great doujutsus, but now it's just another bloodline compared with the Rinnegan and the Sharingan (aka 'New powers as the plot demands' eye)
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I wouldn't call that a reveal so much as a confirmation. Granted it hasn't exactly been explained why it took so long for Naruto to learn of his heritage, but it was pretty appearent from the get go that Naruto was related to the 4th Hokage. I think the only one not clued in was Naruto himself.
Well since the Black Zetsu plotline is a rather new revelation I don't plan to make Zetsu this force of evil that Naruto and the others have to battle.
While all the details aren't plotted for Eroninja 2 and 3, I don't plan to make Zetsu a bigger antagonist then he's been for the 680 chps he's been before. While I still plan to stay true to the manga you can say it is grudgingly that I do so.
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I know I don't have a say, but I really hope you don't add her, I find her character shallow and cheap,because it was okay for history but aside from that is just B.S, not to mention that her horn and third eye freak me out, specially if you consider the fact that unlike the sharing an, the byakugan did not have a lot of development during the whole series and now its part of some sort of super goddess? If it was part of a divine being why was so underpowered?
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Hey. Monster girls are sexy. That's why Tayuya is so popular.
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… i think Tayuya is popular because she's a spitfire, she has character, but to each his own.
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Well yeah. Personality is important. But it's nice when that personality has a few extra eyes, or a transparent body, or whatever quirks your monster girl of choice has.
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I can understand where you are coming from, but the fact that she is shallow is one of the reasons it would be fun to add her.
As for the her third eye and horns, well even women with those kind of features need love as well. Maybe because no one would get close to her, she became a rampaging goddess.
AS to the Byakugan, well that would explain why it was considered one of the three great Dojutsu.
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Well, Naruto does have some experience with horns thanks to Tayuya. Besides who knows, maybe Kaguya is a big softie inside and only needs a nice person who doesn't care about her being a walking natural disaster (once again, he's got experience thanks to his Bijuu lovers)
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Everyone needs hugs, even mass democide-ing horny alieans maniacks. All that power went to her hor...erm head and she needs a firm spank....cough firm handeling and like weird-d said, he's got plenty of experience with that now.
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I just read chp682... Somehow I feel I may be closer to the truth than I thought...
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What an ending, being a pervert save the world. Though this makes Naruto just look stupid in a sense since his plan failed and Sasuke plan propably would have sucessded
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Well, her suprised face was priceless, she look cute
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Yeah, it looks like she couldn't believe her good luck. First time free in millennial, and being thrown naked guys at her.
She looks angry after they went away, probably very miff that she was trick and didn't get to put them to good use.
You know, in manga stream, in the last page it asks what is going to happend to Naruto now that she is alone with him. I was thinking, she is going to extract payback in the most adult manner possible from him, for many very long hours.
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