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TheHylden ā€” Kain GlyphX model full Recreation

Published: 2014-04-09 04:35:00 +0000 UTC; Views: 7581; Favourites: 134; Downloads: 0
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Description This is the final Kain render modeled first in 3D-Coat, finished in Zbrush, polypainted in Zbrush, finished texturing in Photoshop. A fully sculpted redo of the GlyphX model seen in the Soul Reaver 1 & 2 Full Motion Video intros of the Legacy of Kain series, by Crystal Dynamics and Eidos/Square Enix.

Low Poly model Rendered in Marmoset Toolbag 2. Normal Maps, gloss and specular maps, for items. Metalness maps for some metallic items and his skin. Cavity, occlusion used in spots, etc.

Back in the last week of August, I spent four, or five days modeling the preliminary model you see here in 3D-Coat, which I planned to show the devs working on the game Nosgoth at the event in England. All went well and I got some nice compliments. I didn't get back to it until October, and then I continued modeling and detailing him. I won't go into it all, but I wound up having to redo him. Basically, 3D-Coat uses dynamic tessellation in Surface mode, which means as you etch details into him, the polygon count keeps increasing. It shouldn't have increased, both times I modeled him, like it did, though, and it put me in months of a bind to try and fix. I didn't then expect all of the trouble in Zbrush fixing it. I should note that I've never modeled anything before, so this all was new, and the problems I faced were probably every problem there is to face in doing it. The modeling part wasn't a problem, it's the fine dealing in figuring out how far to subdivide the model, when to go into HD Geometry (Zbrush's way to let you go higher in polygon count than it could normally handle -- I say it, because it's still a 32 bit program, running in a 64 bit environment, so it caps the memory it can use). I didn't know how to uv a model (the models I retextured before already existed, and had their own uvs with them), how to retopologize, how to combine model parts into one, and finally how to generate proper normal maps, and other maps. I wound up spending a long time trying to achieve the best maps, and wasting time making displacement, even vector displacement maps, which I ultimately can't use anyway in Marmoset. I went into HD Geometry after subdividing too far on the regular subdivisions, and this didn't come back to bite me until after all of the detailing was done and the UVs applied, and I was painting the model. I tried and finally succeeded in breaking up the model's HD parts, and getting that information into maps, but anyway, this is now 6 months later, so this was a long cramming sessions of learning how to fix things, learning what not to do, hopefully, for the future.

You can read more detail on my problems and journey here:

www.hylden-dimension.holocron3ā€¦

Tons more pics. I'll upload closer shots here to show the detail better also. This journey will continue. I hope to make animations, recreations of the ingame cutscenes. Kain's Reaver is modeled. A Human Kain has been started, modeled from this version of him, and I plan on trying to recreate BO1's cutscenes, his turn as a vampire, and his stages of evolution, with all of his armors and outfits in the series. The rest of the cast, of course, too. Lots of stuff in my head. Lots of work ahead, heh.

Thanks for stopping by to look.

Edit: Updated some things on Kain. His gauntlets when arms down weren't long enough. His forearm and claws are longer now. The cape is finally sculpted to show the folds I wanted it to, and is fuller. Added in displacement maps. The 32 bit ones I tried before in Marmoset didn't work right. They just ballooned the mesh out uniformly. I saved out regular gray-scale height map displacement from Zbrush and these work better to do what they're supposed to -- expand out the shape of Kain. His lips didn't have quite the arc and fullness, so their angle and look wasn't right. This is closer to the high poly sculpt's look. It's not perfect still. The eyes in Marmoset look wider, where they look relaxed in Zbrush. But, it's as close on the low poly out of Marmoset I'm probably going to get.

Updated the site with more pics of him. I think it's updated now, anyway.
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Comments: 57

TheHylden In reply to ??? [2016-12-25 19:36:01 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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DarkAnsem88 [2015-10-11 20:52:39 +0000 UTC]

Could you release this model and Raziel's models, please?

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TheHylden In reply to DarkAnsem88 [2015-10-13 21:37:33 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, I'm not releasing the models for the public. I am going to be prepping it for use in the project, Soul Revenant, the fan remake of Soul Reaver 1 on the Unity 5 engine, however. theancientsden.blogspot.com/

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DarkAnsem88 In reply to TheHylden [2015-10-22 12:03:05 +0000 UTC]

wait.. the project IS actually happening then? maybe a demo?

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TheHylden In reply to DarkAnsem88 [2015-10-27 03:33:11 +0000 UTC]

Yup, it's still happening. There was a demo a long while ago, but yeah I am sure when everything is ready another will be coming.

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DarkAnsem88 In reply to TheHylden [2015-11-18 21:06:17 +0000 UTC]

I certainly hope so. And I don't wish to see your models wasted!

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DeceptiKain [2015-07-18 23:49:58 +0000 UTC]

Wish this model was available for XNALara.

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Oflgn [2015-04-17 12:28:22 +0000 UTC]

looks great, special the head and his face but one think is bugging me. His waist, I think it is way to slim. vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lā€¦ vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lā€¦ on this pics you can clearly see that his waist is bigger.

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TheHylden In reply to Oflgn [2015-04-20 15:10:43 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the comment, Oflgn

I modeled Kain to be a recreation specifically of the GlyphX version of him seen in the SR1 and 2 intros, not of the ingame versions. His ingame versions varied a lot between SR1, 2, and Defiance. He's a lot lankier in SR2 than in 1, and Defiance broadens his chest again. His waist in Defiance is very thick, with the addition of his pant straps that they actually modeled separately. So, the game's proportions are hard to go off on. The best version, to me, is the intro version of him. It is harder to get a straight-on look at him in the intros, though. The one pick I have of him facing full front and not bent over, or at an angle, when using this superimposed over my model, perhaps a little tweak might be needed in the waist. I'll try it while I'm working on rigging him for animation.

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Oflgn In reply to TheHylden [2015-04-21 17:59:59 +0000 UTC]

Now that you mention it I see what you mean. I looked mostly on official artwork and on most of them Kain is shown with a broader waist. The thing that I want to know is how long did it to make this? I mean when i first saw it I thaugth it was official xD

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TheHylden In reply to Oflgn [2015-04-24 22:36:27 +0000 UTC]

Thanks Ah, well that's a bit of a story. The time it took me to sculpt and texture the current version, I guess was around 2-3 months. However, this all was my first attempt at modeling and when I started making him it was with another program. That program wound up having some bugs and issues. I had to remake him from near scratch, following tips on what to do to avoid said issues, but they happened again. So, I wound up having to chop up that model and bring him over to Zbrush, then rebuild him yet again. Yeah, and learning the technical side of doing the low polygon version of the high rez sculpt and a bunch of other things later, I finally "finished" him. So, the total time for all of that took about 7 months, or so. It's been a learning experience, for sure. I'm still tweaking him a bit here and there as I learn how to rig and animate him.

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matiz22 [2014-11-15 16:21:27 +0000 UTC]

Buenisimo!!
Thanks!

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TheHylden In reply to matiz22 [2014-11-18 12:13:38 +0000 UTC]

Thank you

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RENATOWUZAS [2014-09-16 02:52:36 +0000 UTC]

you got talent bro

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TheHylden In reply to RENATOWUZAS [2014-09-17 11:44:41 +0000 UTC]

Thanks and for the favs

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thevampiredio [2014-06-03 05:47:33 +0000 UTC]

fantastic!!!

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TheHylden In reply to thevampiredio [2014-06-03 10:16:33 +0000 UTC]

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Nekro-Phil [2014-05-31 14:25:24 +0000 UTC]

The one thing I hated about this design of Vampire in LoK is their toes.Ā  Can they bend 'em? can they make fists with 'em? they just look so solid and rigid.

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TheHylden In reply to Nekro-Phil [2014-06-01 00:20:53 +0000 UTC]

Hi, yes they can to both. I've modeled him with joints in his fingers and toes in mind, and have posed him with him making a fist. His toes have to bend to change his feet and leg positions while still remaining on the floor, too. There's a closer pic here which also show the gloves closer, with some wrinkle detail of where they would usually bend: www.hylden-dimension.holocron3ā€¦

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SykA-theblacker [2014-05-31 14:06:03 +0000 UTC]

Cast him in! - This was the first thought that came to mind when I saw this. Excelent detail.

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TheHylden In reply to SykA-theblacker [2014-06-01 00:11:22 +0000 UTC]

Thanks a lot

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Soraya7 [2014-05-31 12:29:29 +0000 UTC]

Well done !

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TheHylden In reply to Soraya7 [2014-06-01 00:11:08 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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APZ-Freak [2014-05-04 00:06:03 +0000 UTC]

Awesome! I doubt any of my advice helped, this is amazing

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TheHylden In reply to APZ-Freak [2014-05-04 23:43:05 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. By the time of your reply, yeah I was mostly done with all maps and just tweaking his features based on feedback from fellow fans. In keeping with the tradition, looking online and finding out through the hard way on most things, heh.

But your advice reinforced things I'd seen and done, so it's still appreciated (on the normal map side). I didn't go for using Ambient Occlusion maps with this render, letting Marmoset handle the Occlusion, itself. However, you also backed up what I thought, the way I was doing in in Max, via the Scanline renderer, as the best way. My problem months ago was just trying to do it too large in the map size (so they took all night), so I'll be sure to note that in the future.

My main problem right now, though, is getting this rigged for animation. I spent a week trying both Maya and 3DS Max, and I hate it. After concluding that it's moderately easier for me to make a rig in Max than Maya (Maya is super weird with joints sometimes), then the skin weights knock me for a loop. Let me ask you, if you wind up (somehow, maybe a side-effect of exporting from Zbrush, maybe from smoothing the normals in Maya??) having duplicate "elements" of meshes in 3DS Max, can you delete them without altering the uv makeup of the model? I mean, these aren't duplicate polygons, or meshes, that I can see. They are only found when in the element selection option, not vertices, or polygons. I wound up having like 8 copied feet this way, and it's already frustrating doing the weighting. Not a smooth process at all to me.

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APZ-Freak In reply to TheHylden [2014-05-05 04:32:02 +0000 UTC]

I hear ya man. Skin weighting is a bitch But I'm proficient in rigging in both Max AND Maya, although Maya is the only one I've done professionally. I've seen problems like that before when importing data from game rips... not from hopping back and forth from Max to ZBrush... Are you using GoZ? Sometimes good old fashion .obj exports is the better way to go if that isn't working right. Depending on your settings, GoZ is the better way to go to keep the scale correct.

OH, and good advice is to ALWAYS WORK TO SCALE. However tall Kain is... Let's say... 6'2"? I don't know O.o I like to use the default unit scale in Max which is 1 unit equals 1 inch. Most people work in metric, whatever is best for you.

If it's duplicate elements (called Shells in Maya btw if you didn't know, I only found out a year ago ) Then deleting them shouldn't be a problem. It's best to make sure the model is complete and whole in your package before starting the rigging process. There's various different sets of data that can get carried though on models sometimes, and there's various ways of "resetting" your model in both Max an Maya, I've had many an epic battle of such things...


I tell ya what though... I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an .obj of your model (or the Maya/Max proj folders) , and setting up a basic rig in both Max and Maya so that you can use it as a learning tool. (And again, if I can use it as a perfect reference for my own ZBrush sculpt/retopo) I'll leave the weighting to basic and let you finesse it, but I know how to git-r' done in both packages and I don't mind helping out someone who's damned awesome! I know it helped me out a ton to have something in front of me that was done right to help me understand how to do it on my own.

Also I wouldn't mind a basic outline of the process on how I did it to go along with your two rigs and a few screenshots. I won't go too indepth, because I have limited time, and you seem like the kinda guy who learns quickly on his own, I would like to provide alittle help, that's all

Whaddya say?

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TheHylden In reply to APZ-Freak [2014-05-21 04:41:22 +0000 UTC]

Sorry for not responding sooner. I don't think I want to give over my mesh. Not that I don't believe you just want to use it for a reference, but yeah, it's pretty much my baby (first I've done, only one out there reproducing the original elder Kain, etc.).

Eh, until I get the notion to tackle this, I'm up to my ears modeling human Kain anyway. Thanks for the offer, though, and the advice.

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APZ-Freak In reply to TheHylden [2014-05-21 07:48:45 +0000 UTC]

Word dude, I can respect that! Good luck for all your future projects. I'm sure you'll see my Kain within the next year, Cheers!

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TheHylden In reply to APZ-Freak [2014-05-23 02:20:39 +0000 UTC]

Thanks and you, too. I look forward to it.

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APZ-Freak In reply to TheHylden [2014-05-25 02:18:35 +0000 UTC]

Since you've rekindled my interest in Soul Reaver, you've inspired me to do something different. I'm sculpting a fully realized version of the IN-game Raziel model. It was accidentally so artistic with it's abstract triangular eyes and hair pieces. A stroke of limited means genius. Basically recreating it but in full detail, bring that abstract surreal style into being.

And if you're interested, I can still present you with a rigged bipedal figure in both Max and Maya. Don't know how much help it'd be, but it couldn't hurt!

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TheHylden In reply to APZ-Freak [2014-05-30 14:15:01 +0000 UTC]

Sounds like a great idea. I look forward to seeing it. It could be really good seeing the abstract style revamped.

I've posed Kain with Zbrush, and am busy at the moment modeling a scene for him in that pose. I want to get a proper render and presentation of him done before I get into tacking actual rigging and animating otherwise. When I do, I'll have him also in a better T pose to rig and without the extra mesh copies. I figured out what in Maya was doing this. If you go under Normals to Soften Edge, the mesh turns from the edges highlighted green to orange. Well, I guess that only means it's temporarily applying this to the normals, but it's not until you click off of the mesh and then click it again is it really applying it. So, I was exporting with the mesh still colored orange, and it saved off two copies of the mesh in one this way.

I find I hate all of these programs to varying degrees.

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APZ-Freak In reply to TheHylden [2014-05-30 21:15:56 +0000 UTC]

I hear you there buddy. I hate all of them to varying degrees as well Maya, I think, takes the cake as far as frustrations I've endured. 3DS Max was possibly worse back before 2008, since then it's been fairly stable. Only a few stubborn things that really even bother me, but I work efficiently in it, and can model/UV layout/bake/texture paint a simple model within hours (Like one of my current contracts)

Cinema 4D has it's own list of problems that quite simply baffle me, and I will not touch Milkshape or Blender. Zbrush can be great but most of it's problems come from getting models in and out of it.

I look at it this way, nothing perfect, but as long as you can make something good and get them to work for ya, that's better than nothing!

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TheHylden In reply to APZ-Freak [2014-06-01 00:23:52 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I wind up finding all of the other hidden problems. Zbrush transpose master? Look out. It's got issues. 3DS Max cloth simulator? Look out. Crash city. But yes, I'm thankful these programs exist and work at all, just have to keep telling myself that.

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APZ-Freak In reply to TheHylden [2014-06-01 03:28:06 +0000 UTC]

Amen

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IizGrohiik [2014-04-15 16:38:11 +0000 UTC]

wow that looks really good, full dedaliert.
how can you draw all those details? many deatails it looks simply gorgeous. in the model drawings of nosgtoh example. of the razielim it's amazing these gloves to see ^ ^
when I draw my charactere they have little details -. - Ā°

I'm looking forward to the next pictures: D

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TheHylden In reply to IizGrohiik [2014-04-16 17:47:59 +0000 UTC]

Thanks This is a completely new 3D model sculpted from scratch in 3D-Coat and Zbrush, so a ton of that detailing is actually physically sculpted into it. I used a combination of painting on the model with Zbrush, and blending in real textures of certain things, like for the black leather. Blending in existing materials brings items like clothing and metal to life.

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IizGrohiik In reply to TheHylden [2014-04-17 12:10:46 +0000 UTC]

yes that also looks really really off, really fascinating what is possible today ^ ^

good work

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Spookellie [2014-04-10 07:36:30 +0000 UTC]

Really really beautiful work dude! Makes me happy to see.

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TheHylden In reply to Spookellie [2014-04-10 10:02:54 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. I'm happy, then

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turtelfrog [2014-04-10 03:29:19 +0000 UTC]

Nice to see my childhood isn't dead yet!

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TheHylden In reply to turtelfrog [2014-04-10 10:02:30 +0000 UTC]

Heh, doing what I can to keep it alive Thanks.

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j3f3r20n [2014-04-10 01:46:39 +0000 UTC]

So beautifull, can't stop looking at it. Great job, great job

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TheHylden In reply to j3f3r20n [2014-04-10 10:02:09 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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Joshpeace13 [2014-04-09 23:33:00 +0000 UTC]

Fantastic work thats some amazing detail

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TheHylden In reply to Joshpeace13 [2014-04-10 10:01:54 +0000 UTC]

Thanks, Josh

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Kanji-The-Wanderer [2014-04-09 20:04:53 +0000 UTC]

Gah! It's Kain! Wonderful work!

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TheHylden In reply to Kanji-The-Wanderer [2014-04-10 10:01:43 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much

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Lucinvampire [2014-04-09 19:52:29 +0000 UTC]

This is AMAZING - actually amazing doesn't cut it! You've truly out done yourself this time!!!!! Beyond epic!

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TheHylden In reply to Lucinvampire [2014-04-10 10:01:26 +0000 UTC]

Thank you, Lucin

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VaryagOfMiklagaard [2014-04-09 17:35:25 +0000 UTC]

_fangirls_
LUCKY DUCKY YOU IS!!!

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