Comments: 39
Sireinita [2019-03-20 18:21:46 +0000 UTC]
Some constructive criticism for your constructive criticism:
Your disclaimer implies that not only did you fail to ask anyone for their permission to use their designs in your journal, but the respective artists never asked you for constructive criticism in the first place. Not everyone wants constructive criticism -- there are plenty of artists that indulge themselves with their character design and have no interest in following canon to a T, and still other beginning artists who are discouraged from experimenting and growing when their work is showcased as part of a "bad collection."
If you truly enjoy writing this series to help others improve their writing and character design, there are multiple ways you could continue it while also respecting other fans:
- Unless others explicitly request your critique and offer you permission to include your characters in the series, use only general examples or ones you made yourself (like Paige). You did this a fair bit throughout the review when you expanded on undesirable writing habits and provided constructive suggestions. In fact, you could remove the specific character examples from this altogether and still have a guide that is detailed and well-rounded.
- Focus on the DO's rather than the DON'Ts. From your writing, it's apparent that you enjoy identifying patterns among RWBY characters and lore. A guide that emphasizes what is consistent with the canon is more helpful for artists looking to construct a character that fits with that world. If artists allow their characters to be used in your series, then the focus would be on what is done well with these characters and how those traits can be replicated -- you mentioned collecting good RWBY characters in your favorites, so why not highlight those? See below for an excellent example of a guide that 1) does not use specific fan characters and 2) focuses on what to do rather than what not to do: static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__c…
- Sometimes a specific review can be really helpful -- if specific artists want your constructive criticism of their character, you might consider authoring a journal that collects all of those reviews for others to study and learn from. It could also serve as a hub for artists who are seeking critique to request it from you in the comments section.
You mentioned you meant no ill will, so I hope these suggestions are helpful in making that ring true with this series as you move forward.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Sireinita [2019-03-31 17:25:00 +0000 UTC]
I welcome constructive criticism on something like this.
Unfortunately I can't agree with that. When you post artwork or writing publicly on the internet with a public comments section, you can't expect people to not share their opinions on your work, that's just how criticism functions. As i've said before, I do regret using public works like this and it's not something I intend to use in future as a direct link, but every artist I featured was somewhat seasoned on DA or was simply a commissioner and/or writer so I don't think I was discouraging anyone fresh to the craft with this particular piece, nor is that my intention in any future journal of this nature. I have chosen to leave specific examples up because they better illustrate my point and everyone featured has been rather accepting of this. So i'm afraid I can't agree with simply not criticising something because someone doesn't ask for it.
I actually do have something in the works of things I enjoy about RWBY fanfiction, however again I have to refuse from not talking about the consistent problems a lot of writers make in their early works. Sometimes people aren't even aware something they're doing is bad unless it's mentioned, that's something I want to focus on. There are plenty of other positive simple writing guides out there for use, this is mine focusing on what i'm good at. If someone doesn't want to use this as their writing guide, then that's fine and they can go and find something else to take from.
Regarding good characters and specific reviews, I feel I already do that with the featuring and the comments left on them in general, which I do for most things that wind up in that particular collection. I suppose I could feature a list of good OCs sometime but i'd need to do some more writing to figure that one out. In the meantime, i'll probably put up a new piece on things I do like, then make my next piece on things not to do.
I appreciate the time you took to write this and I will take these suggestions to improve these journals in future!
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Sireinita In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-03-31 19:18:13 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for reading through. As someone who prefers to receive and offer constructive crit, I agree posting work publicly does come with an invitation for feedback -- but it should be understood that pieces are not posted solely for that purpose, and if critique is not desired, then it should be withheld as common courtesy. (deviantART specifically has a feature for declaring when critique is not desired, although it is not available outside of a Core membership.) To continue to give critique after the artist has made it known it is unwanted is disrespectful. I don't know if any of the artists featured here expressed they did not want critique, but that should be something to keep in mind should you receive less than enthusiastic reception of your critique in the future.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Sireinita [2019-03-31 19:59:38 +0000 UTC]
None that I was aware of anyway. Yeah, having Core does allow you to ask for critique and I agree hounding someone with negative opinions is annoying. However, even those who don't have Core could simply turn off their comments if they can't handle it, so it's not as if they don't have options for these kinds of situations. This is specific to published pieces where i'd comment on them more than journals like these as i've repeated, I won't be personally calling anyone out in future with these sorts of pieces.
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Sireinita In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-03-31 21:01:24 +0000 UTC]
It's unfortunately an imperfect system -- turning off comments is an option but a rather extreme one that stifles any conversation that could be had at all.
"I won't be personally calling anyone out in future with these sorts of pieces."
Nice; I happened to see someone refer to your series as "roasting" and although it didn't seem like what you were angling for, that's just how it usually comes across when specific artists/ocs are used as examples.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Sireinita [2019-03-31 21:18:05 +0000 UTC]
Sure it does, I agree. But there's also just ignoring it, responding to it and ending it cleanly, hiding it or even blocking the one who sends it if it's simply too much.
Would you mind referring me to these messages? Maybe i'll take a note to quell that in my next piece considering. This is the bed I lie in for myself, oh dear oh dear...
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Sireinita In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-04-01 01:02:40 +0000 UTC]
No problem. This one on your front page is the one I was referring to: www.deviantart.com/comments/4/…
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Sireinita [2019-04-01 12:33:04 +0000 UTC]
Ah yes, forgot about that one.
Well i'll put that disclaimer in my next piece to end this sort of matter.
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Eru-shi [2019-01-05 04:31:22 +0000 UTC]
just a note, Nigel's tonfa is armed with a pistol by the base which he can trigger for range combat. His weapon isnt a transforming type but it covers both melee and range. just sharin`
Edit: Also, I laughed at most of your criticism and was honestly surprised my Verdell isnt included in the edgy category XD I was willing to bet my pinky that her background's gonna ping the edgy/tragic radar lmfao
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Eru-shi [2019-01-05 12:50:13 +0000 UTC]
Oh shit it is? I didn't pick up on that during the initial looking at, oopsy doopsy.
...oh wow uh, yeah this certainly fits the edgy backstory. It's pretty short and at least condensed to one even mind you. Guess I just never read the profile...
btwfortherecordithinkmostofyourdesignsareactuallyprettygoodkthinxbai
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Eru-shi In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-06 08:34:12 +0000 UTC]
XD no prob fam
And yea, we all know peeps love having edgy ocs and Im no exception to that hahaha
Her and Nigel are my edgiest the others are pretty much rainbows amd sunshine lmao
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Eru-shi [2019-01-06 17:23:01 +0000 UTC]
Well hey, least you have a fair contrast!
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Diyaru4500 [2019-01-04 01:59:10 +0000 UTC]
Can't say I agree on not having a transforming weapon into multiple forms is lazy. Seeing RWBY seems to favor individuality, what's stopping a person from using separate weapons, or just one?
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Diyaru4500 [2019-01-04 02:18:11 +0000 UTC]
Well like I said, majority characters in the show merge their guns into their blades. The infamous tagline 'it is also a gun' applies very much to most characters in the show. Maybe they don't have to transform, i'm realising a little that my wording of that can be better, but bottom line is using separate weapons goes against the ethos of the show, especially for huntsman characters.
That being said, I will at least take melee weapons with some trick to them like dust infusing or channelling or guns with some unique secondary feature over using two weapons.
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Diyaru4500 In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-04 02:23:10 +0000 UTC]
Eeehhhh.... debatable.... as I do have a character idea who uses a sword (with a dust infusing blade thing) and pistol (with different ammo and firing types) combo 👍: 0 ⏩: 1
TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Diyaru4500 [2019-01-04 02:26:55 +0000 UTC]
That's fine. I mean at the very least you've made the weapons somewhat unique for them and i'm not at liberty to judge til I actually see the OC anyway.
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KnightyNightey [2019-01-03 21:52:26 +0000 UTC]
Well, I gotta be honest, I was a bit miffed when I saw my bios, but this is the internet, so criticism is to be expected. Constructive and destructive. So I'm not upset. I got curious.
I'm always up for some feedback.
I kinda giggled when you wrote the part about the dark background and boy, you really know your stuff. Indeed, Mourvedres past is dark as hell and those pointers you did gave me some ideas for improving on that(namely about how said negativity attracts Grimm and having such dark thoughts would be an all you can eat buffet for them. Nice hint.)
And reaching the overpowered OCs, I smiled a wee bit. You are correct. Gormaine is too op and that was the goal in mind. You gave proper evaluations and because my story is still in progress, his bio is the only source of information on him. (wish I could show some fanfiction of him, but they are all drafts)
though I thought I balanced his op ness with his major drawbacks, but the more you know.
Just curious about one thing: How is blood control overpowered?
Thank you for the review and if you wish, we can have a chat via notes.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to KnightyNightey [2019-01-03 22:04:39 +0000 UTC]
You know aside from one case, this whole situation has genuinely impressed me, it's seriously pretty heartwarming to see folks willing to sit down and chat about critique like this.
Yeah Mourvedres past is something I keep referring back to when you just go knee deep into the dark side of things. And i'm pretty sure that's what you were going for anyway. The Grimm attraction thing is a problem I used to have too so i'm glad it's reaching out a bit more.
Yyyyyyeah Gormaine... man I hate to critique him since you gave him such a stonking good look. Most of the OP nature of him is kinda mitigated with him being an adult and a huntsman at least? But one of my issues with him in particular is how a lot of his drawbacks seem to be mitigated by his abilities. Though i'd love to debate on this and pick your brains a bit, lets do that in Notes to make it a bit more concise if you're cool with that.
Well the way blood control is OP is usually twofold. One is in the Avatar sense where you can literally control people via their blood. I know that's not your guys' deal it's just an example I spotted once in my fanfiction reading. Specifically, your guy's use of it isn't OP, but it is what I consider a 'Do-all' semblance, which I have a personal dislike against since they're so general they can apply to almost anything. And again to be fair to you, you gave it the necessary drawback that usually comes with blood related abilities, so well done you on that front.
So again, thank you for this cordial response, i'm seriously grateful.
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KnightyNightey In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 22:15:27 +0000 UTC]
Well, didnt expect such a reply so soon, so color me surprised.
And hearing some criticism from time to time is not so bad, gives different views(I work im retail, so destructive critism is my routine)
Oh, about Gormie, he certainly is a handful.
we can chat later, for now my mental battery is barely there, but I will check your stuff. Until then, I wish you a pleasant evening
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to KnightyNightey [2019-01-03 22:19:02 +0000 UTC]
Ahhh a fellow retail worker, I know that grind and then some.
Take your time, i've got aplenty. Same to you!
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 [2019-01-03 11:55:35 +0000 UTC]
That transforming weapon section is a load of garbage. Two of the main characters done have transforming weapons. This just sounds like an excuse to complain about other people’s characters because they weren’t made the way you wanted.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to BloodAngelsCaptain1 [2019-01-03 17:48:05 +0000 UTC]
Can you please inform me which of the four main characters don't have a weapon with a secondary use? Pretty sure all of them have second uses. Scythe/Sniper rifle, Rapier/Dust shooter, Sword/Uzi/Cleaver, Gauntlets/shotguns. I think you might be getting too hung up on my use of the word 'transforming' and that's fair enough, I could've perhaps been a little bit clearer on that.
I don't mind characters not being the way I would make them, I do try to put personal biases aside when i'm writing this stuff to help other writers out. But i'm afraid there are rules to follow within the world of RWBY and if an OC does not follow them, I will use them as an example of what not to do.
I'm sorry this piece upset you, but like I said, this is no personal attack and this piece is not an excuse to complain, it's supposed to be there to help.
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 19:48:01 +0000 UTC]
If that’s what you meant by that, then my OC still doesn’t belong in this, because you clearly didn’t read his information. His shield is both a shield and a holder for his sketchbook, so it fits your stupid little criteria. And even if it didn’t, there are still other characters in RWBY who have weapons with no additional feature: Sage, Cardin, Tyrian, Fox, Mei, etc.
And it still baffles you that you have the gall to criticize people’s characters when they didn’t ask for your opinion. So no, it is not just that you arrogantly pulled my character into this garbage “advice” of yours.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to BloodAngelsCaptain1 [2019-01-03 20:14:59 +0000 UTC]
No, I did read his information. His shield is still just a shield and he wields a gun in a separate hand. Giving it a function to work with their semblance does not count. In fact that hits on another problem I listed in this journal, of the semblance becoming tied to their fighting style so much if you removed the semblance, the weapon becomes less worthwhile. I honestly had a lot of choice which of your OCs to use as an example of bad weapon design, I simply went with the one that was the most visually apparent. I don't even dislike the semblance idea, I figure you could really go places with an idea like that.
Yes, there are still other characters who use weapons with only one function, I covered them in this journal. Yatsuhashi, Jaune and Sage, all of whom were depicted losing onscreen at least once, multiple times for Jaune. Also, Cardin's mace has a fire dust enhancement allowing it to use explosive attacks, Mei's sniper rifle has an axe function, Tyrian's gauntlet blades have small guns around the wrist and whilst Fox doesn't fire his weapon onscreen, it has very clear gun parts such as a trigger in his hands. The only character onscreen who uses a single function weapon who is markedly successful is probably General Ironwood. This still doesn't excuse the fact that majority of RWBY characters use multi-function and/or transforming weapons. This is not my 'little criteria' this is just how the world is written and shown.
You're right, I did not ask for your permission. But criticism doesn't necessitate asking someone for it, it is used when someone has something to say to help someone improve. A lot of this is more about general criticism than a direct attack on anyone's characters, I may not like a lot of your characters but even I can see positive elements in them. This is just here to draw on one of them as an example to help others improve. I'm sorry if you feel like that's offensive or i'm trying to attack someone, because that's not my intention. I'd just like to help new writers who want to contribute based on something I love. That's all.
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 20:38:07 +0000 UTC]
Riiiight, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t believe you for a second. And again, by your flawed logic, Leo (nor any of my characters for that matter) belong in this journal of yours, given how his pistol can fire various types of ammunition.
And don’t try to backpeddle and patronize me at the end. You’ve already shot yourself in the foot
And yes, it is your little criteria, as is evident that not everyone in the world has transforming weapons.
And that “it’s criticism” song and dance is a fragile and pethetic excuse to try to hide behind. Especially when it returns to the fact that no one asked for your “help” on the matter. For example, I love Shadowrun. And I see characters I think are poorly made all the time. And guess what: I don’t say anything to their creators unless they ask for it. Why? Because it is THEIR character and THEIR tabletop and I have no right to tell them how to have fun, or try to disguise it as “constructive criticism” like you try to do.
And quite frankly, even if we had given you persmission, it’s quite clear here based on what we already discussed that you are a poor “critic” and don’t have a full grasp on what you’re talking about.
If you’re truest sorry, which I don’t believe you are unless you prove me wrong, then why not do yourself and the creators you embarrassed here a favor and remove the examples? Of course you won’t though, because that was always your intention: to heckle, put down and embarrass people.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to BloodAngelsCaptain1 [2019-01-03 21:30:59 +0000 UTC]
I really don't know how I can explain this any more clearly than I am and I have no intention of backpedalling. The OC I chose as an example still uses two separate weapons. Yes, not everybody uses combo weapons in RWBY, but majority of people do and the gun being able to use dust ammo does not count, Blake and Ruby use combo weapons that fire dust rounds, they're made to be compatible with firearms. This is not a criteria I created, it is how the world works. "It is also a gun" is a slogan used to describe RWBY's weapons.
Criticism is not an excuse. This is what I do all day, I write, it's my passion. And I like to improve on that passion whenever I can. And i'd like to think writers who want to make RWBY related works would also like to improve themselves or have some help for how to start, considering there's a lot of examples of the bad cliches i've mentioned in this and my previous journal, more help is always useful. If you think i'm a poor critic, then tell me how I can be a better one, besides simply not criticizing at all. I do regret that I forgot that adding in the examples pings people, that is a mistake I will own up to. And I put a disclaimer right at the top that it's not my intention to offend, attack, embarrass or heckle anyone I mentioned here. In fact a few people have taken this with good humor and corrected me where necessary.
I can't force you to believe me and i'm not going to try to honestly. I'd be happy to keep discussing character creation in Notes if you want to still argue about that, but for now, i've made my case and i'm happy with it. I am sorry I upset you and I insist I did not mean any personal attack, but I stand by my words.
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 21:55:58 +0000 UTC]
Also, if writing truly is your passion, then why not focus on your own stuff instead of putting down others.
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 21:44:46 +0000 UTC]
You are constantly backpedaling you hack.
And again, not every character follows this criteria, so it is moot. Get over it.
And yes, you are using it as an excuse to do the things I already mentioned. And I already told you how you could be a better critic, but you won’t do it. And you’ll have to excuse me for calling you a liar or backpedaller for putting up that “disclaimer” of yours.
Also, if you are truly sorry, How about you remove my OC from this trash of yours then? He doesn’t belong up here, and if you don’t, I will file a DMCA.
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ZeroSenPie [2019-01-03 08:37:51 +0000 UTC]
Geezus,its been years that I haven't updated Garrett's info
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ZeroSenPie In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-03 18:16:41 +0000 UTC]
Well,tbh,I've lost track now because I havent been watching RWBY since volume 5
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to ZeroSenPie [2019-01-03 18:28:24 +0000 UTC]
Ouch, that's a lot of ground to recover...
I'd recommend getting back into it though. Season 5 is still a little shaky but season 6 has been very good so far.
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CHE3ZY [2019-01-03 01:41:15 +0000 UTC]
I appreciate how my Karmein's backstory is an example for edgy backstory tropes to avoid, goes to show my amateur writing years ago, I'll take your advice in consideration should I plan to rework my OCs' origin stories.
Though it's funny how you didn't pick Lynae's backstory as well since "born into assassin or mercenary group" is also considered as a cliche in dark backstories.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to CHE3ZY [2019-01-03 17:53:24 +0000 UTC]
You know what, i'm kinda surprised I didn't either! I think I just acclimatised to Karmein due to his image, the whole dark clothes, red sword, kinda on the brink of edge drew me in and the backstory just cemented it for me. And I did try not to include two examples from the same person because at that point I am basically picking on someone.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention though and thank you for being a good sport about this, it's really cool to see.
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CHE3ZY In reply to TheDukeOfDestiny [2019-01-04 06:04:52 +0000 UTC]
I'm a sucker for criticism, (being showered in love can get tiring) partly why I made Karmein somewhat of a masochist. Come to think of it, what part of the backstory exactly made you think that "there's the edgy cliche"? was it the "parents fate assumed to be death or worse", or "for some reason, I feel aroused when I had my tail cut off"?
Funny how I can't exactly recall what I wrote for his bio 2 years ago, then again I've my hands full (so far the most recent attention I've given to Karmein was a weapon, emblem and appearance redesign)
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to CHE3ZY [2019-01-04 16:11:48 +0000 UTC]
Well there's a few parts of his backstory that I found to be cliche edgy.
First of all, him watching his Dad kill people so much that death no longer phases him and he in fact gets into it. Characters being interested in death and talking about it is usually a warning siren for overly dark writing. Not to mention kind of looks like bad parenting on his Dad's part, even for a huntsman.
Next, the cult-like thing with the White Fang. I just kind of don't understand this plot point, the Fang are a terrorist Faunus rights group, when did we bring Faunus sacrifice and ritualistic murder into their repertoire? I guess you can argue the fantasy element of Remnant but it feels tonally discordant.
Brainwashing parents is another one. Again I get why it's being done, confronting ones loved ones after they've changed can make for gripping emotional drama, but brainwashing considering they were trying to protect their son from them feels... odd, to say the least.
And yeah the big one is having his tail cut off to hide his Faunus attributes and get into the masochism thing. Now masochism itself isn't necessarily an edgy thing, it can make for an interesting character dynamic, but it being cut off just to hide it seems like going too far, it could easily be hidden via clothing.
Those are my primary reasons for saying he has a dark backstory, it seems like there's just not a lot of good things that happened to this kid and now his mentality is forever mired in that darkness.
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Batomys2731 [2019-01-03 01:01:36 +0000 UTC]
I know you mean well, and I hope this doesn't come across as hostile, but I would like to offer a correction regarding my character. Constructive criticism of your constructive criticism, if you would.
Stone's weapon actually does transform. It has both a two handed melee form (slower, but hits hard) as well as a one handed form (faster, less powerful) for close encounters. The large spike on the end also can be fired like a giant taser dart via a trigger built into the grip, which he uses to either incapacitate enemies at range, or pull a Mortal Kombat Scorpion and pull his opponents closer to him. It plays into his fighting style of being a beast in melee, but limited against ranged enemies.
Again, I don't mean to come off as hostile. I just felt the need to clarify that Stone and his weapon do not fit into the cliche you've put him in.
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TheDukeOfDestiny In reply to Batomys2731 [2019-01-03 17:43:58 +0000 UTC]
You know what, I did vaguely remember seeing that in his description a while ago when I read it? But it has been a while since i've seen that and I went off of just his image rather than his actual profile. So that is fair criticism of this piece and i'll probably have to go hunting for a better example.
And hey, this is not hostile, like, at all. I'd say you took this pretty well, so thank you!
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BloodAngelsCaptain1 In reply to Batomys2731 [2019-01-03 12:01:46 +0000 UTC]
You should be hostile though. Because not only is that transforming thing nonsense (two of the main characters don’t have transforming weapons), but you didn’t ask for his opinion, nor did you give him permission to mention you.
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