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inspecter In reply to ZhaneAugustine [2013-04-07 05:43:38 +0000 UTC]

Life does not lose meaning, and its content significance just because it ends. If you only see things as significant if instrumental to an afterlife of some sort, then you are missing much of the content of human life. I don't know about you, but I have known people who for religious reasons, don't; Dance, sing, drink Coke, eat meat, make friends with gays, lesbians, members of the opposite sex, or Catholics, or drink coffee or tea. And that just counts people who call themselves Christians.

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ZhaneAugustine In reply to inspecter [2013-04-07 06:15:37 +0000 UTC]

I can say there are two faces to the coin. There IS such a thing as being TOO religious. In the NT the early Christians are warned to STOP staring at the clouds and work for the kingdom of God in the real world. (I forget which letter or Epistle it is in). So you make a good point on that account.

But on the other side of the coin, I see significant of instrumental to an afterlife as much as the physical life. Dancing, singing, drinking Coke, eating meat... etc. From my studies nothing wrong in moderation. I'm make more hard core references.

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inspecter In reply to ZhaneAugustine [2013-04-08 00:06:18 +0000 UTC]

I don't think it is an entirely issue of being "too religious." I don't think that the people whose view of their religion (or whose interpretation of The Bible) includes the most proscriptions on their behavior, are necessarily more religious than those who have a different interpretation which has different standards of behavior. (At the same time, some of the most impressive Christians I have met also accept some of these uncommon restrictions.) There is I think, and perhaps this is your point, a way to be too concerned with the next world to fully appreciate this one. And to forget one's responsibilities to others because one is focused on one's presumed responsibilities to God, missing that they are, for the most part, one and the same.
For example, I do what I think is right & just, because I believe it is just, not because someone has told me that it is on the list of things God wants me to do, or it will help me to earn a better afterlife, in part because I know around the next corner is someone just as sincere, with a totally different list. And so when I meet someone who wants to force their list on others(and these were the people who really bothered Roger) civility demands only that I point out that to Love My Neighbors I need to allow them the same religious freedom which I demand for myself.

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ZhaneAugustine In reply to inspecter [2013-04-08 00:19:50 +0000 UTC]

Yes that was the point that I was making when I stated what I did.
I don't do what I do because I'm looking to please God for the most part, that is I don't do it because I'm afraid God's gonna get me if I do not. I do it, because I know it is logically right, and if God is love, as I believe, I know He'd accept that.

Here's an example from me. My mom and I were in a Bible book store years ago. While at the cash register, I noted the typical box asking for money for those in need you can find in both Religious stores as well as secular. Thinking nothing of it, and having spare money to give, I put it in. Interestingly enough, (and keep in mind I'm not claiming this to be a miracle or anything absolutely divinely inspired)I noticed the a verse from the Bible supporting exactly what I did. Now I didn't read these bags before I gave the money, and ALL the bags had the same message, as obvious for the length on them (the writing was no more than two lines maybe three). So it wasn't as if the clerk had saw that and decided to 'reward' me with a good message, etc. Besides that she was already packaging what my mom had bought before I did the act.

Now while I don't believe that God slipped in that message ONE HUNDRED percent, though I don't honestly know, I DO believe that that verse did reinforce how God was, and how He wanted us to treat each other.

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inspecter In reply to ZhaneAugustine [2013-04-11 07:17:40 +0000 UTC]

I had a friend in college who was absolutely convinced that his new pants came from God. He was a a really nice guy, that every one liked. The thing was, everyone on the floor, particularly his very devout roommates, knew he needed, and was praying,for new pants. I was not surprised when he found them. And one could certainly argue that God worked through his friends to answer his prayers. But it wouldn't prove anything.
I don't mean to make fun of your story. It is just that I hear almost daily of people who believe God has touched them in ways that are hardly conclusive. These are people of various faiths and sects, and unfortunately it usually reinforces their belief not only in a divine power, but of their interpretation of it. You don't seem to have that problem.
It is interesting that the store had that sort of "Help the Poor" philosophy. The fact is that there is a move a foot in this country, and the world at large, to re-write Christianity as some sort of Libertarianism. When you see a Catholic bishop defending Ayn Rand, you have to wonder what is up. I heard one fellow actually say that when Jesus talks of the poor, he doesn't mean those in poverty, but those who are poor in spirit. I'll be curious to see if the new Pope moves the conversation back to those in poverty.

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ZhaneAugustine In reply to inspecter [2013-04-11 23:53:28 +0000 UTC]

One could easily as say that someone waking up in the middle of the night somewhere half way across the world and felt the need of someone prayed for him as well. (that's one flaw in the argument that say they can't see prayer in the lab with two groups, one prayed for and the other not. How can one say that someone not involved and with knowledge of said experiement but has the feeling a prayer is necessary, did not help one person who on the 'not prayed for' side, and that said individual got better "with no prayer" whatsoever? You can't.)

I realize that, and its why I said what I did. I do think its possible but its not something I'm going to absolutely dwell on.

A lot of the Christian book stores I've been to have had said philosophy. I believe in both the poor in spirit as well as the poor in physical needs, and I do believe Francis (despite the hate and the words of some calling him anti pope, and the black pope)will become a great prophet and servant of peace and help to the poor. Where I and others have called John Paul II the Great, I do believe Francis shall be known as the Honorable.

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inspecter In reply to ZhaneAugustine [2013-04-14 07:45:07 +0000 UTC]

As you suggest, it is usually difficult if not impossible to prove a negative. But when "testing" supernatural claims, scientific methods are usually sought. In the example you mention, one can never completely rule out some outside unreported intervention. But is there any reason to think that people randomly praying will tend to pray for one of these subjects over the other?
While not everything I have heard about him is good, a lot of it has been positive, so I hope he does well.

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ZhaneAugustine In reply to inspecter [2013-04-15 05:03:05 +0000 UTC]

Actually there have been many a times I have woke up at night and felt as if a prayer for SOMEONE, even if I don't know who, is needed. So there is THAT reason.
Well you'll not heard absolute good from anyone, especially a pope. But the past is the past, what's needed to really focus on, especially if one want to see if they've put their demons behind them, is the present.

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Keaton-Corrine In reply to CadmiumCrows [2013-04-06 00:54:12 +0000 UTC]

then you should watch this tribute NC did 4 years ago to both Siskel and Ebert


[link]

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