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punctual3 — Funny MRA: Pot Calling the Kettle Slacktavisty
Published: 2014-04-22 16:54:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 3741; Favourites: 30; Downloads: 0
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The only time feminists go to the real world to "make a change" It's something like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGT…
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And this: www.thefword.org.uk/2011/05/we…
And this: www.womankind.org.uk/
And this: www.womenforwomen.org/
Need I go on?
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Seriously. Has anyone ever seen the MRA do anything outside of a chat room?
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Yes:
laist.com/2013/12/18/mens_righ…
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That's what annoys me the most about MRAs- guys are being killed and raped out there and there idea of helping is to blame feminists ,
where were they in Ferguson when a black boy was shot due to stereotypes about black men?
where is the campaign to actually HELP male rape survivors?
where is the campaign to get more representation for FtM people?
All MRAs seem to do is spam places with 'what about the menz' and 'not all menz', the only people hurting men is them and patriarchy
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MRAs don't give a FUCK about Black men, male rape survivors, or FtM people, unless they can use them as an excuse to blame feminism.
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Most feminists also don't give a fuck about male rape survivors, they only care about female rape survivors, even though both male and female rape is just as serious
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Your tu quoque argument doesn't disprove anything I've said in this year old comment.
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No you are correct, that wasn't my goal
I was showing you the hypocrisy that feminism is though
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that could be a meme -
'Black men are killed, gay men are abused, FtM are attacked-
Whines about white heterosexual male oppression'
I dunno though, you know more about how to fight these idiots than me
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But no, that's a good (and accurate!) one.
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This pertains more to feminists then it does to MRAs.
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I'm a troll, remember? Stop feeding me.
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MRAs have done things in reality, such as try to have male shelters opened in Canada (without any support). Or investigate women abusing the law, and trying to get them arrested (like Pauley Perrette). Or organize meetings to spread information, one of which was interrupted by Red who broke the law and wasted firefighters' resources.
I guess that'd be too much information to handle for those who let one single movement dictate their views on the other.
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What about men who break the law? No consequences for them, huh?
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If by "investigating women who abuse the law" and "trying to get them arrested" you mean Paul Elam's AVFM branch-off website "Register-Her", then I'm afraid you don't have a leg to stand on with that claim.
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Oh yeah, not just Perrette, either.
www.avoiceformen.com/mens-righ…
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I was initially skeptical since the source on this link came from AVFM, the brain-child of the same guys who also made the "Register-Her" online harassment database, but who's own downright hyper-extremist hate-based rhetoric not only has even self-identified MRAS citing them as a bunch of utter loons , but does absolutely nothing to provide aid, shelter, increased legal rights or further equality of any kind to anyone anywhere.
But now I know that once I read up to the falsely accused being "average nice guys with nurturing passive personalities", then I just knew that what this article was claiming as "fact" had to be nothing more than complete horseshit. If it were factual, then it would mention how men who are falsely accused of rape are largely black men from poor, low-income backgrounds who sadly have neither the economic or legal resources to defend themselves against the claims brought against them.
But given the FBI and the Justice Department's ACTUAL FACTS regarding the odds of the average white cisgendered heterosexual man falsely-accused of of rape or abuse by a woman (2.7 million to 1) means you're more likely to win the lottery, become a pro-football player in the NFL, or even get raped yourself as 1 in 33 men tragically are at some point in their lifetime and are every bit as hurt by "false-rape accusation" decryers as lady-victims are , you can't help but wonder (at least with a decent amount of human empathy in you) just WHOSE "equality" a website like AVFM is supposed to be advancing. It can't be "men" in their entirety if they're making claims like that. Especially when the only people who TRULY benefit from these claims being put into action in the form of legal policy are the abusers, rapists, and unrepentant batterers while the rights and protection under the law that everyone else has completely disappears in it's entirety.
So yes. You still don't have a leg to stand on with that claim.
Then again this might be too much information to handle for those who let one single movement dictate their views on another movement...
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Also, you're supporting the "guilty until proven innocent" approach for all rape allegations? That smearing a man's reputation, and possibly ruining his life (because you know, colleagues can tease and employers can fire, regardless of whether he's convicted or not - not to mention people put in jail and proven innocent years later) out of spite should have no consequence whatsoever?
Just because the majority of rape accusations are genuine, you're telling me people should be given the freedom to toy with someone's image (and possibly their whole future) with a simple complaint.
Interestingly enough, in India, feminists lobbied against the new gender-neutral definition of rape, and forced the government to revert to its exclusively male-on-female definition. Their argument for it wasn't that "men are rarely raped at all so it's not needed", it was "but what if men start filing false reports out of spite?"
Sounds like anything we ever do only oppresses the default victims (women) and favors the criminals (men).
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Your last statement actually is the description of the person who made this, and yours.
For the record, I used to adhere to feminist beliefs (in other words, let a movement dictate my views on everything). If I were as credulous as you seem to believe I am today, I would still be rooting for feminism, not Men's Rights.
I'm too tired right now and have other preoccupations in life, so I'll give you usernames of Tumblr people who get their facts from multiple independent sources:
heroinfriday (also has a YouTube), anti-feminism-pro-equality, siryouarebeingmocked, just-smith.
Some of their posts are available on my own blog with tags like "rape culture" and "rape" or "abuse" and "violence". Collections of several sources are tagged "practical".
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My last line applies to you as well. Do you really not see the irony here? MRAs may be a widely diverse group, but the actual progressive aspects of it are very much drowned out by the downright misogynist rhetoric. Hell, the first link I gave you was an MRA article from the same website you linked me to which outlines their bigoted rhetoric straight from their own mouths.
For example, if that link you gave me contained the slightest bit of actual facts, it would have said this about the statistics of men who are falsely accused of rape;
"The falsely accused tend to be by and large, strangers unknown to or unacquainted with the victim of assault. They are nearly exclusively males from low-income backgrounds and also largely from ethnic minorities. An overwhelming majority of the falsely accused tend to be Black. However while there are far fewer cases of false accusations than cases of actual assault, the falsely accused are more likely to be imprisoned prior to trial on a single-case basis, as they tragically lack the legal and economic resources to defend themselves from the claims brought against them."
But instead your article said;
"The falsely accused tend to be your nice, average guys with passive, non-threatening, nurturing personalities who frequently associate with abusive women because they never learn from their mistakes that all women are psychotic cold-hearted shrews."
Bull. Shit. That is not a demographic representation. That is a "He-said-She-said" argument. I don't think the authors of your article particularly care about the injustices that low-income black men face when they are falsely accused. I think they care more about maintaining the benefits of their own middle-to-upper class "white male privilege." So what they do is they cherry-pick from the cases of low-income black men being imprisoned after being falsely accused and apply it to their own cases where they tend to know and associate with the victim on a daily basis. However as a result, their claims when put into practice, wind up harming anyone who isn't a white middle-to-upperclass male. It's "rape-enabling" behavior.
Not to mention something that a lot of people who let MRAs dictate their views on feminism tend to forget. A core concept you guys almost always get wrong; no one deserves to be raped. Regardless of the victim's gender, male or female. No one anywhere should have to live with that. The sex, race, age, or sexual orientation of the victim does not make rape any less ugly of a crime.
Yet many MRAs kinda seem to be under the delusion that "male-on-female rape" doesn't actually exist. Like, at all. I will ALWAYS advocate on behalf of men who suffer from abuse and sexual violence. But what the AVFM-crowd tends to do is use those stories to detract the claims of those who speak out against violence against women then spend the rest of the time mocking these male victims via terms like "mangina."
So pardon me for not taking you seriously. But when I try to put myself in your shoes, I wind up thinking about the mental gymnastics that would be necessary for all the contradictions and discrepancies in your argument to actually make sense without seeming completely hypocritical, to the point where my ears start to bleed from the sheer insanity of it.
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If your last line applied to me, I'd never have changed my mind about feminism in the first place.
I used to adhere to feminist standards, despite spotting obvious loopholes in their studies (such as lack of reference groups when studying violence against women and concluding they face it more than men, or using conviction rates as an equivalent for offense rates whenever it suited them). I used to think such fallacies were justified because I was told from childhood how oppressed women were, regardless of cultural and geopolitical differences between peoples, that they were stronger and had a choice etc etc.
Then I discovered Egalitarianist and MRA websites pointing double standards deeply ingrained in our minds and laws, which made me think. And when I say think, I mean not just think about what I saw, but also analyze how I myself thought and felt.
This careful introspection showed me how deeply ingrained double standards were. How I was taught to ignore anything girls did because it was "not serious", while a boy doing the same would be "threatening" simply for being a boy and not even acting more menacing.
"Bah, if your article contained facts, it would've said what I know as the truth, instead, it says something else."
If the MRM cared more about white men than men of color, why would it be so diverse? siryouarebeingmocked, who doesn't claim to be an MRA actually, is a black guy and still one of its most loyal allies.
And lol "white male privilege".
You look at the worst members' behavior and claim it the movement's general attitude. Feminists talk about such things all the time and it's "just a joke" or "rebellion against the oppressor", but reverse roles and it's suddenly
I'm not denying the existence of such individuals, especially with websites such as AVFM, and I reckon I have better things to focus on right now.
But the other people I mentioned are much better at this than I am, hence why I mentioned them so you won't have to bother yourself with any "mental gymnastics". Liv (mod of heroinfriday) is a woman, if it gives her more credibility.
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Explain?
Also, I'm talking about recent news about Pauley Perrette, accused of abusing the restraining order laws and corrupting government officials - with quite a lot of evidence collected, too.
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You forgot about the time when MRAs took action by deliberately abusing an online college rape report system by spamming it with phony reports.
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oh, and calling ManBoobz "anti-misogynist" when it really is just anti-anyone-who-doesn't-agree-to-their-views?
please.
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What the hell are you talking about? When did I say anything about manboobz?
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I meant the link you posted, not your comment.
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Sorry, I was a little to focused on the article's main focus of the sabotage of a rape report system by MRAs to remember its brief mention of manboobz.
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So?
Some girls report rape because they regretted having drunk sex (while the guy was also drunk) or to cover up that they cheated on their boyfriend/husband. Not to mention sexual harassment complaints that can get a man fired, whereas women are practically immune (TheAmazingAtheist made an interesting video where he related his own experience with this double standard, and I've read many accounts of women harassed by their girl friends who were just supposed to shrug it off).
Such things can greatly undermine the credibility of women who're genuine rape/abuse/harassment victims, as well as destroy an innocent man's image and life.
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"Some girls report rape because they regretted having drunk sex (while the guy was also drunk) or to cover up that they cheated on their boyfriend/husband. Not to mention sexual harassment complaints that can get a man fired, whereas women are practically immune."
You know that false rape reports are less than 10%, right?
" (TheAmazingAtheist made an interesting video where he related his own experience with this double standard, and I've read many accounts of women harassed by their girl friends who were just supposed to shrug it off)"
TheAmazingAtheist also made an interesting rape threat against a rape victim over the internet and tries to silence anybody who brings it up. Yeah, that's the kind of person I'm going to trust when it comes to such topics.
"Such things can greatly undermine the credibility of women who're genuine rape/abuse/harassment victims, as well as destroy an innocent man's image and life."
Do I need to bring up the percentage of false rape reports again?
Also, it's good to know that you're ok with people vandalizing rape report systems. Thanks for giving further confirmation that the MRA is composed of nothing but corrupt, immoral individuals in poor disguise.
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Oh my god, who cares that they're "less than X%"? The simple fact that they exist should be enough cause for concern to take measures against it.
If it were a relative thing, we wouldn't have any laws protecting Asians from racism since Black people are subjected to it more.
Ad hominem.
Besides, TAA was just an example. I remember holding such beliefs myself when I was a dumb kid. That sexual harassment or physical violence by a woman shouldn't count as harassment/abuse, because men are stronger and more violent blah blah.
It's so cute that you're generalizing my response to one single thing to the entire movement's attitude towards shitty behavior against women.
This one was stopped in time, and no one's roaming the streets shouting that it's the truth. Studies biased against men and MRAs, however, receive a huge amount of publicity and spread like cancer.
I have debunked countless ones (more than all articles I've analyzed as a molecular biology student). Some of them have such blatant loopholes (like lack of reference or precision) it's painful that nobody, not even uneducated people, ever notice them.
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The reason it's worth noting that false reports are uncommon is because many people (most of them MRAs) try to make them seem more prevalent and often use them as an excuse to trivialize actual rape/sexual harassment/assault against women. Also, there ARE laws against false reports, so comparing it to legalizing racism toward Asians is fallacious.
It's not an ad hominem if I'm rejecting what TAA says because of a relevant characteristic of his.
(I'm just going to ignore your poorly structured thus nearly undecipherable sentences.)
Being a molecular biology student is irrelevant with your correctness on gender issues. And it's kind of funny how you scoff at articles for not providing references, yet you have supplied no references in any of your comments.
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Actually, women who file false rape/harassment charges are the ones trivializing real rape and harassment of women. MRAs, by bringing them to light, try to improve people's trust in genuine victims - to prevent false victims from undermining credibility.
Fair enough, TAA and Paul Elam are borderline (and sometimes outright) misogynistic. But do you sometimes stop and think, maybe they turned out that way because of their experiences with women?
Do you know who else sends death threats and wishes rape/mutilation upon others? Feminists.
They sometimes tell a woman that, if she'd been raped, she'd change her mind and support feminism. Funny, because she was a rape survivor, she just didn't let her emotions rule her view of the world.
You're right, my education as a molecular biologist is irrelevant.
What's relevant, however, is that I've been taught scientific method and shown how to spot contradictions and loopholes.
If I don't provide references, it's because I've done it hundreds of times before and I'm tired of it. Instead, I'm providing you with indications so you can find them by yourself.
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That's total garbage. How the hell is making a "statement" against false rape by abusing a rape report system going to "improve people's trust in genuine victims"? One of the main reasons few rapists go to jail is because of the common misconception of high false rape reports, when the reality is that they're very few in number. Spreading the false statistics to the point of outright lying about it (like so many MRAs do) will only create even more difficulties for rape victims. Stop trying to disguise this as something that will help them, because it won't.
If you think that having bad experience with a women is a good reason to be misogynist, then having bad experiences with men is a good reason to be misandrist. Also, having a bad experience with women is NEVER an excuse for do something like what TAA did to the rape victim. Period. And please stop with the red herring strategy.
It's actually not my responsibility to search for your references. If you make a claim, YOU bear the weight of evidence, not me. If you're unwilling to do that, don't start an argument.
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I never said abusing a rape report system is going to help actual victims. Neither did I condone hating on a gender because of a bad experience.
For someone who complains about me "misrepresenting" his words, you sure love to misrepresent other people's words.
For the former: I do not condone what MRAs did with that rape report system, but it got caught because it went too far (read: it didn't fit the expected figures). Actually, I said exactly the same thing you were pointing out, except you're talking about men and I was criticizing women who do just that (and feminists encouraging them to).
With the latter: The point is, these men turn misogynistic because they experience these double standards against them. Feminists love to argue that women who hate men often have been abused by men, yet men who hate women are just terrible people? Nothing justifies wishing rape or murder upon someone else, but come on, stop making it sound like only anti-feminists do that.
See, no "red herring" after all.
As for "responsibility", see other reply. I don't have the time nor the laptop power to open and copy dozens of links every time I make one statement. I did that a couple times and ended up overheating and slowing down my laptop.
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But you did say that emphasizing false rape reports helped rape victims, and I brought up the sabotage of the rape report system as an example (among many) of how it actually harms them. But at least you're finally acknowledging it after I brought it up several times, so I guess that's progress.
If you're going to keep arguing with me, do you mind giving rebuttals against what *I* said instead of bringing up what feminists in the past have told you?
I brought up TAA's rape threat to show why that piece of shit is a bad example of a spokesman for "double standards" when it comes to sexual harassment. That's not "making it sound like only anti-feminists do that".
As for "I don't have time, it doesn't work on my computer, blah blah blah", see my other reply.
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Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were commenting on a piece based entirely on what feminists say.
Not even the kind of feminist who helps improve women's living standards, but the faction that whines on the internet and denies MRM initiatives.
You know, the unreliable kind who cries "misogyny" every time anything happens to upset them. The kind whose opinions you are repeating word for word.
My computer's performance is not my responsibility.
Furthermore, I have a legitimate reason to have one place to gather all my sources, rather than individually picking them by hand dozens of times. Because, believe it or not, you aren't the only person I argue against.
Thus I am picking my sanity over your obsession with individual links. I'm not "making up dumb excuses", just giving people a choice - and it's clear which one you have made.
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No. You're commenting on my observation on what MRAs often say. If you want to rant about feminists, do it somewhere in which they're the main topic.
Then, for your own sake (and for mine), I recommend that you stop arguing with me if you can't cite your sources, whatever the reasons are.
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Not just something they say, you're comparing it with what they do. That's why I'm arguing about feminists - because you're just repeating what feminist propaganda says about the MRM as if claiming facts.
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...ok, so does that mean I shouldn't take anything an MRA says seriously? If what they say is incompatible with what they do? Also, see my other comment.
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My mistake, let me rephrase.
This meme is not comparing what MRAs say with what they do. It's comparing what MRAs say, with what feminists say MRAs do.
That means you shouldn't take anything a feminist says about MRAs seriously.
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But these memes are based directly off the comments I've read from MRAs. So you're argument is untrue.
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You keep telling me when I present you occurrences of something (women lying about rape, male victims being ignored, female batterers released despite being proven guilty)
that illustrating does not make them common, that examples don't prove anything.
Yet your entire meme series, as well as your "Hey Antifeminists" list, are built around examples of extreme behavior (sexist quotes and bigoted attitudes) that you generalize to the entire MRM (and more generally anti-feminism)
...to "prove" that they're really just misogynistic and irrational.
What gives?
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Where in the meme series did I say that ALL MRAs say those things? All I said was that MANY of the ones I've observed/spoken to have said those things. There is a difference.
And the "Hey Antifeminists" list was built as a response to anti-feminists who bring up (often fabricated) examples of extremists in the antifeminist movement. AND to prove that the most influential leaders (ie: Paul Elam) VASTLY supported by MRAs are as misogynist as they come.
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I'm done, I can't be assed to listen to you and DoctorGenius not understand half of what I'm saying and blocking me because people don't like being disagreed with, and I know you're gonna count this as a victory in your sad little mind, and I couldn't care less, scuttle on back to Tumblr now.
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Caring enough to post not one, but two misplaced-ad hominem-stuffed comments raving about how you're "done" isn't the equivalent of not caring less, buddy. Oh, and flipping the bird won't help cover up your butthurt 
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I love how you made up that I'm 'Butthurt' in order feel more assured you're correct, it's like watching a Hamster run into a glass door.
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I wasn't making up that you're still commenting even after you said you were "done" and that you "couldn't care less"
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I love how DoctorGenius didn't like the idea of someone dosagreeing with them so they blocked me. D'awwww, it thinks it's right!
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