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Sonican98 In reply to ??? [2024-04-26 04:03:07 +0000 UTC]

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Don-Klopfen In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-06-03 21:38:07 +0000 UTC]

God bless you man... Don't be so resentful, please...Calm down.

(before you read my comment, I apologize for my bad english, it's not my usual language X)  )

The verse you quote (Matthew 10, 34 to 39) is true. But I thing you misunderstand it, and, in fact, I think you misunderstand all about God and Jesus. For example: when Jesus said that people will be divided because of Him, do you think he had a smile on His face? No! He didn't want that. But he knew that this will happen. He knew that some people were going to accept His love and love Him, and be saved, and He knew that some people were going to reject Him and all His message. He simply said the truth. And it is the truth, isn't it? That happened. Some people Love Him, some people hate Him, and some people doesn't care at all about Him.
But in His love, God wants everybody to have the opportunity to be saved.

You seem to say that God demands too much, that He is like a bad man who wants everybody to love him. But in fact His jealousy is justifiable. He simply wants us to give Him what belongs to Him. I mean, nobody says to a husband that he is bad when he wants his wife to be faithful to him, isn't it? It's the same for God. He must have in our heart the place that belongs to Him, and that mean everything. But what does "give everything to God" mean? It doesn't mean to worship and praise all the time. It means that our whole life must be an adoration to Him: our whole life must be righteous, and good, and just, and we must love EVERYBODY (even our ennemies), we must be faithful, joyful, full of love for everybody, in all the sectors of our lives, and all of this even in the hard times. That is a true adoration to God, that is what he wants.

The condemnation is for those who doesn't want to do all of this, it's for those who just accept to do what they want to do. But God as absolutly no pleasure in their death. He wants them to be saved too.

Well, I hope you had understood me (again, my english is bad), and have a good day! ^^

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Don-Klopfen [2014-06-04 07:41:22 +0000 UTC]

So, rather than directly teach humankind what he thinks is right and wrong in order to ensure everyone's salvation, god would rather punish those who exercise their free will or remain ignorant (willfully or otherwise) by burning them alive for all eternity?

I can't even make a bad parenting joke, because even terrible parents eventually interact with their children on some level. God, if he exists, left a big-ass book full of vague nonsense and poetic hyperbole for his newborn children, and if they haven't interpreted it by age 5, he condemns them to a life of medication and unwarranted therapy. While on fire.

Jesus was useless, and god is a non-existent prick. No loving creature would ever create something like Hell, they would reject the mere idea of such a place! Hell is just a marketing campaign: "join us or you will suffer forever," and I'm not afraid of some child's bullshit threat. You can't scare me into faith with something that I'm not afraid of.

I fully accept the knowledge that when my life in this body, on this planet, ends, I am gone. All that is my consciousness; my thoughts, my feelings, my personality, is destroyed. My brain is all that makes me what I am, and it will wither away when I am deceased. Forever will I be gone into total darkness. No Heaven, no Hell.

If you wish to be one of the many, many cowards who touts this unforgivable atrocity of ancient fictitious literature that's been manhandled to better suit the politics and bigotry of modern-day men, be my guest. I will do no such thing. Fuck you, and fuck your imaginary friends too!

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-08-09 05:54:28 +0000 UTC]

John 3:16

"For God loved the world so much, that he sent his only son to die for our sins."

The only way is through Jesus, and do that you must be willing to seek him.

It is impossible understand God's ways  if you don't believe in Him. Like you, I thought of God's judgement unfair and cruel. It sounded like He was a dictator, condemning people.for those that didn't believe in Him. But after reading the Bible, I understand,  He give us all the opportunities we need in order to have a relationship with God. All He wants is be acknowledged and His love is infinite, even for the worst human. Yes, you may claim that science is the explanation for how things work, but God started it all. My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, died on the cross to pay for all the sins we had committed, and thus promising us eternal life. You stranger can have this promise, by opening your heart up The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Amen and bless you.

I pray that you find Jesus and live a fulfilled life.
  

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2014-08-09 20:56:14 +0000 UTC]

John 3:16... y'know, I have to wonder: if God actually cared- really, truly cared about any of us or the sanctity of life, why is it that his son being tortured and murdered by the state of his time is the only solution?

For that matter, rather than giving us free will and dictating that we must follow the rules outlined in scripture (which has itself been so tampered with by modern mankind that it may as well be Dr. Seuss) that directly contradict the nature given to us by him, why not judge us by our neutral goodness? Why not say, "You will be saved if you're a genuinely good person regardless of your private life or habitual flaws" and just let us be as we are without fear of eternal punishment for having FUN?

God wants to be acknowledged? Fine. I acknowledge that you believe in the asshole deity written into existence by primitive humans back before the dark ages to influence how people live; a deity which, if defied in the most insignificant of ways, will burn your ever-regenerating flesh for all eternity. Why? Because he loves us, of course.

Give it up. There is no justification for how horrible your god must be to exist as you says he is and let the world be like it is now. "He works in mysterious ways" is not your end-all, get-out-of-jail-free card! That excuse wouldn't work for notorious historical monsters like Che Guerva, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or any number of other genocidal shitheads, would it?! No, but it always works for your god because it's a convenient dismissal so you don't have to think about it and inevitably doubt how preposterous it's always been!

And that's just your imaginary friend! The culture behind it is SO much uglier than that, no matter how much you cut out of every year's new censored edition of the bible! I'd go so far as to say the history of Christianity is so fucked on the moral compass, nobody in that retched book even understands what words like "salvation" or "redemption" actually mean, much less are they qualified to be the arbiters to whom those words apply!

You give me a straight-forward, logical reason why a drunk of six-hundred-years can breed with his family of six to repopulate the earth after it'd been flooded because everyone else on the ENTIRE PLANET was apparently evil, babies and all, and I will concede to faith. If you can explain to me why the one man God finds worthy of salvation is also a drunk who would throw his two somehow-virgin daughters to the mob of rapists outside his house trying to bang the two angels the drunk harbors rather than the angels just becoming incorporeal or vanishing, I will submit to the will of your god.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg, and I know for a fact that you have nothing that can justify it. A truly loving and benevolent deity would not ask us to sacrifice our mortal lives in suffering and repentence for shit we weren't even alive to commit before granting us heaven, they would give it to us here and now. Your god is a murderous, petty, manipulative, pretentious, demanding, duplicitous bogeyman that should be wiped from history because we don't need him.

Prove me wrong, because the burden of proof is not on my head.

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-08-10 06:37:56 +0000 UTC]

He doesn't want you to suffer! The universe wouldn't at all exist without Him. Look at the earth, a perfect place for sustaining life. Look at the human brain! The sun and the moon. Look how well placed the earth is from the sun. Any closer we would burn. Any farther we.would freeze. All the oceans! The sky! In fact, there hasn't been any proof of evolution at all! It's a scientific theory.  Ask yourself, what came first:
The chicken or the egg? How did these plants survive without bees, and how did bees survive without the plants?  I already know the answer, and the question for you is: Can the world really exist without God? I certainly know it can't.

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2014-08-10 16:56:27 +0000 UTC]

You don't know anything apparently, you believe it. Which is your choice and that's cool with me; what I'm arguing here is the attempt to spread the unfactual opinions because that's also my right to disagree. I choose to believe in reality, where we exist. Let me break it down for you:

1) The earth took millions of years to naturally terraform into a mildly-habitable place where even the most primitive single-celled creatures could form from its elements and exist in life as we know it. Over time, the earth became more habitable thanks to its changing elemental properties, and the single-celled creatures multiplying also began to change over incredible amounts of time. It didn't just appear out of nowhere. The tropical paradise of Hawaii probably wasn't always on the surface of the ocean; the beautiful mid-western mountain ranges we have in the United States aren't some architectural masterpiece, they're a wonder of natural formation because of shifting tectonic plates pushing surface rocks upward as inclines. The world is a fantastic, wonderful place... but it's even more amazing when you realize it assembled itself over time.

2) The position of the earth around the sun is neither intended nor an "accident" as many believe, it's sheer chance that it found an orbit like ours around a star to support life with tolerable amounts of solar energy- and that's just looking at it from our point of view! Consider the literal millions of galaxies we've spotted throughout the universe around us, composed of countless stars like our sun, each with the possibility of orbiting planets; more solar systems. What are the sheer odds that we're the only forms of life in the universe, and who're we to say life cannot/does not exist with more, less, or even zero significant solar bombardment? Our world is unique as far as we know, but it's probably not the only one out there with an abundance of life like ours. The moon is also not that special- it's just close enough that the sun's light makes it commonly visible to us. Other planets have more than one moon in our solar system alone, and certain studies suggest that we may have once had more than one!

3) We've taken an extensive look at the human brain, to the point that we've been able to map what areas perform what functions, how this amazing organ coordinates and communicates with our bodies, and even how it produces our senses. It is an amazing machine of organic wonder, but between science (which actually tells me its there and what it can do) and god, asking me to "look at it" isn't making me lean for the church. If anything, that statement (it's not even an argument) just gives me more reason to rely on science as the definition of our world.

4) Theory: "a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained." Did you know that most religious peoples misuse the word theory in scientific contexts as though it means it's an idea that cannot be proven or is not in some way supported by any means or lacks all observable evidence? Like you. You're an idiot.
Gravity is a theory. The process by which we understand water evaporating, gathering into cloud formations, and then falling back to earth as rain is a theory. Everything we've come to understand but not at its totality- things we don't comprehend 100% yet have a pretty firm grasp upon, are theories.
It being a theory does not make it incorrect, and you must have huge balls to wave that fucking book around full of shit we ALL know is flat-out wrong, then call bullshit on us rational people just because we can admit we don't fully understand how every single solitary thing in the entire universe works. On this point, I must reiterate: burn your children alive and go fuck yourself. Not very professional, but you seriously need to be shocked out of whatever dark place you get the gall to say stupid drivel like that.
By the way, there's plenty of evidence for evolution: we conduct experiments with fruit flies, whose lifespans are short enough to observe tangible changes between generations. Never mind that the human genome, which shares almost a perfect match in our genetic code with primates, relates us to every single living, organic thing on the planet on some level! The fact that you disown this information does not disprove it- we're not using science like the Bible, as some means of telling people what things are without question. It's how we look at the world One more thing: everyone keeps asking that juvenile question, "chicken or egg first?" like it suddenly means something other than a school children's brainteaser. You doknow that animals were laying eggs long before the chicken even existed as it does today, right? Seriously man, get a clue. This kind of "argument" is truly pathetic. It's not even an argument, it's an expression of desperation.

4) Okay, I'm looking at the sky. What overwhelming evidence for god am I supposed to be seeing up there? I see tons of blinding solar light reflected off our atmosphere, channeled through our perceived spectral palate and is a light blue. Everything I'm looking at up there, I've understood thanks to basic science since I was seven. You keep telling me to look at things, and it doesn't change anything in your favor when I do.

5) "How did these plants survive without bees?" Not all plants are pollinated, jackass! How many bees do you think it takes to ensure the growth of a hedge shrub, or a fern, or veins of ivy? None. Same goes for trees! Bees are not the only means by which flora grows on our planet!
This is a perfect example of what I could use to suggest you go do your own research, because I honestly don't know when bees as we know them today started showing up, or how they fell into the roll of cross-pollinating the plants and flowers that they do, but that doesn't mean nobody knows. Don't take my word for it, go check it our for yourself! I'm about to do the same thing because I'm genuinely curious: "what were the earliest-known plants to be pollinated by bees?" It's an interesting question, one that I seriously doubt god or the Bible will answer for me.

The world does, has, and will exist for eons untold without a god. Doesn't need one! The inherent laws of physics and elements available at its genesis dictated how it came to be today, didn't need some supreme designer to become what it is now.
Again, this is just me typing words. This isn't me proving anything; it's the thousands of people who've dedicated their lives to the profession of observing, documenting, and experimenting with reality to help shape our understanding of the world around us. Go look it up for yourself, never believe just one person's word for anything!
Go find the evidence that makes sense, based in the methodology of sciences developed over hundreds of years throughout our recorded history! Hopefully you'll see reason, but if not, that's not really worrying me. Just means you'll still give me something to bitch about. How can I say no to that?

~TDTK

PS: In my opinion, you're really fucking stupid. But that's just me.

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-08-11 05:13:54 +0000 UTC]

  What I should've said was, Let's say there is a circle that represents all knowledge in the universe. You draw a smaller circle inside the big circle. Let's say this represents your current knowledge of the universe. Now I ask you this, is it possible that the knowledge of God, could exist somewhere outside your circle of knowledge?

Throwing insults at me does nothing. Your worldview does not provide, the metaphysical foundation of what you do when you express moral outrage, employ logical analysis or inductive reasoning in your scrutiny of Christianity! Atheists have admitted that such foundation exists in Christianity! Yet you guys go on and on with natural and empirical basis that Christianity is false and atheism is true! And who's the one with blind faith?! You exclude the supernaturalism as a premise, rather than a conclusion.  Atheism can't make sense out of ANYTHING!! Every argument made by an atheist is bring forth and criticize the Christian faith! 


Your problem isn't the lack of knowledge, it's a hard and sinfull heart!
The Bible confirms this truth. Unbelievers aren't ignorant, they're not sincere seekers who just can't find God, but rather all sinners know the Creator but they've changed the truth of God into a lie for selfish reasons!! (Romans 1:18-32: Truly, the fool has said in his heart, there is no God (Psalm 14:1)  You need to be open minded and tender hearted, and be willing to go where evidence leads you to the truth.


Don't you realize that your moral code is dogmatic as a Christian's is?
You can tell people how to live, the question is why should people live as you say? "I wasn't put on earth to live up to your expectations nor you to live up to mine". Bruce Lee". Because it'll do better for them in life if they do? That's your worldview, your opinion.  

Reply back and I'll already have won, good day and God bless you.

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Heckules In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2015-02-15 06:37:02 +0000 UTC]

 ... Uhm.
Your uhm... your "knowledge" argument.
Your "atheism makes a truth claim" argument...
In fact, all of your arguments.
They're terrible, and they make no sense, and they're old and have been refuted years ago, by hundreds of people. That's how old they are.
Here's one example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcZJVf…
Not to say it's the only one, but it does refute your arguments. So to save the other guy from having to respond to them, I'll just leave this link here and quietly leave this page. 

By the way, no, I don't agree with the other guy. He doesn't structure his responses well and he seems to let his emotions cloud the arguments he's trying to make to a point where they bore me too much to make any sense of them. I'm simply informing you that your arguments are poor and out of date, because I feel that the Christian side of this argument can do much better than the likes of 33dvd2, and I know somewhere, deep in my heart, that one day, I meet a Christian with a good sense of logic worth a debate. Good luck.

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to Heckules [2015-02-18 22:59:12 +0000 UTC]

I'm 17 years old, give me a fucking break. Look I've had a bad day now, I didn't know my argument was that old. This was like the first time I've ever argued about something online. Besides, we both decided to put it behind us. Saving all of the headaches, until this showed up. It's the fucking internet, no one wins an argument here. I was just at a bleak point in my life, got pissed off, ended up typing up an argument I wasn't aware was that old, I've never been in the debate club.

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Heckules In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2015-02-23 11:39:16 +0000 UTC]

Neither have I. This isn't so much about debating as it is about using logic and making sense. Plenty of arguments are won over the internet. Plenty of minds are changed, plenty of discussions take place, plenty of people are met, all in text form. There are sites floating around specifically for debating. But like I said, this isn't about a debate. Even though you may have not been thinking clearly, or you regret something you said, or the tone of the conversation, doesn't mean the topic isn't worth ever bringing up again. It's a pretty important topic. It's the basis of your world view. Even if you don't plan on changing it, or changing others', it would still do you good to think about it critically and use logic to come to your conclusion about why you believe what you believe, with such confidence that you're willing to defend it, even if you never do or never want to again. 

I'm but a year older than you. I've turned the internet into my own personal discussion room, where I talk to anyone willing to challenge their opinions, benefiting both of us as we come one step closer to the truth. I threw you an invitation, sorry if you read it on a bad day.                                                               

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to Heckules [2015-02-25 02:15:46 +0000 UTC]

Heh, I can't change how a person feels about things, that's up to them, and them only,..there's always going to be someone to point out a flaw, and I have many. I don't debate with logic, it's with emotion; yes, it's an important topic, depending on how you ever wish to view it but I've ultimately learned that no matter how much logic you throw at one's face, right or wrong, can't change human nature. That's why we have a lifetime to figure it out, who we are, why are we here, what are we meant to do? Some die early before even having a peek at the answer, in the end what good is discussion, just us toiling away our time, when we could be finding ways to make our only home a better place. You're very wise for someone your age, maybe you'll find the answer before me.

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Heckules In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2015-02-25 09:39:44 +0000 UTC]

I think I've pretty much already found the answer. I mean, I can't say how it's going to change in the future, but I think it's important that I can answer now instead of holding off until I'm a little old lady with a lifetime of memories to reflect upon, hoping to find a better answer than what I can come up with now. Even if I do wait, I don't think my answer will change. Logic is human nature, even if we all have our differences. Logic is the only way we can navigate reality and understand ourselves. When it comes to your own feelings and inner beliefs, of course emotions can tell us a lot. You feel good when you do good for others, you feel bad when you do bad, etc. Logic can explain these emotions and why we feel them scientifically, but that doesn't change how we feel about things or the actions we take because of our emotions. Sometimes though, those emotions can cloud or judgement, which is why logic is an important tool to have. If you can't figure out why you're angry about something, it's likely to say you'll regret your actions, or at the very least fail to take the right action. If you can't point out why someone is incorrect, it is pointless to put any passion into an argument about it. 

Discussion makes my home a better place because it makes me a wiser person. I affect my surroundings, and people affect me. When I know more, I can do more. Even if that knowledge only amounts to understanding someone's perspective, it still helps me understand my own perspective jut a little better. Currently I'm learning about people's world views in the perspective of religious beliefs and Theism so I can understand their side of the argument from an emotional perspective. I'm coming to find that while they are emotionally passionate about their world view, their arguments towards the opposing side are illogical simply because they've never challenged their own perspective before. Their emotions about this topic cloud their thoughts about it. I'm hoping that in having these discussions, they can strengthen their world view with a better understanding of why they believe what they believe, and come to a better understanding of why the opposing side believes what they believe (I'm sure you know, for example, that many Christians still think Atheists are Satanists who hate God and just want to sin.). The more knowledge I gain about this, the better I'll be able to explain to my newly-discovered Christian family why I'm an Atheist in a way they'll be able to understand. They're extremely religious, they have broken ties with other family members simply because those members didn't go to church every Sunday. Like you said, I can't just throw logic at them and expect their perspective to change. Every time I engage in these discussions, I get just a little better about explaining my perspective to others, the other party gets just a little better about explaining their perspective, and we both gain something from challenging our world views against each other, even if we never completely change each other's minds. So in this case, discussion makes my home a better place. Discussions in general make the world a better place. I don't think they're a waste of time at all. In fact, they've done a lot of good.

I think, if you wanted to, you could find those answers sooner than you think. Maybe you just put too much thought into them, but those answers will never stop changing, even after a lifetime. And if there is an afterlife, you'll have to answer those questions all over again, only then, they'll keep changing forever. 

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to Heckules [2015-02-28 05:02:19 +0000 UTC]

I see, to understand why the individual is the way it is. A very perceptive way of looking at things, might I add. I can't match your level of intellect when it comes to discussing why the world is the way it is. People blame circumstances, while I believe it's people who make the circumstances a reality.

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2014-10-06 06:41:44 +0000 UTC]

Replied:

thedeviltheyknow.deviantart.co…

Go fuck yourself.

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Jell-o-Emperor [2014-08-26 22:16:14 +0000 UTC]

Believe it when I say I haven't forgotten you, motherfucker, far from it. You just wait until I figure out what's wrong with my journal function and I'm going to chew you a new gloryhole. For Jesus.

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-08-26 22:35:56 +0000 UTC]

Can't wait to hear it. I've almost forgotten we even had an argument.

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Don-Klopfen In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-06-06 13:48:35 +0000 UTC]

Please, be respectful

You said that Goddidn't teach the humankind what is right. But he did! Jesus said us to love each other. That's the base. Love God, and love each other.
And, come on, everyone knows what is right and what is wrong. Since we were childs, we know that stealing is bad, that swearing is bad, that pornography is bad, that strike another child is bad, that discrimination is bad, that eating too much is bad etc. and we also know that love is good, that righteousness is good, that friendship is good, that respect is good, and so on... The wisdom speaks loud, but a lot of people doesn't want to hear it, because a lot of people prefer to do what is pleasant to them, and not what is right to do. Because, you know, doing what is right isn't always pleasant, isn't it? sometimes we have to suffer to do what is good. Sometimes we have to swallow our pride to do it. Sometimes, we have to stay apart from the crowd... And it isn't easy at all, we fail a lot of times, but we have to put our eyes on Jesus and try again. We have to be righteous, and kind, and full of love.

God bless you, and have a good week!

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Don-Klopfen [2014-06-06 16:22:16 +0000 UTC]

Also, pornography isn't bad just because your parents and your pastor said so. I promise you, watching porn has no consequences other than judgmental people (like yourself) telling you not to watch it because it's "wrong" and never having a good reason as to why.

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Don-Klopfen [2014-06-06 16:18:09 +0000 UTC]

Why should I be respectful? I don't see churches bending over backwards to make me feel comfortable. I don't have to respect anyone's beliefs, all I have to do is acknowledge what you believe in. I've never asked a devoutly religious person to leave me in peace because I don't share their faith, and actually received the amnesty I wanted.
Jesus taught love? Yeah, maybe he did, but a fat lot of good it did. And don't throw that "objective morality" crap at me, that doesn't mean anything come from you. I don't need God, Jesus, or the bible to know that stabbing people in the face is wrong. It's "wrong" in the sense that, because I wouldn't want people to hurt me, I shouldn't give them cause by hurting them. It's a perpetuating truce between people, it has nothing- literally nothing to do with what your imaginary friend tells us. It's not just some draconian edict that you slap on a wall, you don't just stamp it with a big red "WRONG" and expect people to get it. There's a rationale behind it, and you don't get to just claim dibs on the credit because of that book.
Even if the bible goes out of its way to explain what's right and wrong, the bible condones slavery, rape, murder, genocide, coersion, torture, and incest because God says he gets the exception. "Never do these things unless I tell you to, because I don't have to obey the rules." Yeah. Real dependable leader there, I like that consistency.
Never mind eternal torment in the afterlife, the bible makes this life seem like a pretty raw deal if you're not born into a great and powerful family. Before you say the New Testament doesn't have any of that, let me remind you that the NT is just the OT with all of that unpleasant stuff edited out so you Christians can go on believing that you're so much more pure than everybody else. You're not. You're a bunch of people who are cowards about the very concept of death and are willing to ignore just how terrible your deity and the history of your faith really are in order to go about living your meaningless little lives, so pitiful that you cannot imagine life without being the purposed center of the universe. That, is, pathetic.
A murderer who successfully disposes of a body and covers up their crime is still a murderer; a rapist who convinces their victim to keep it to themselves is still a rapist; and a Christian touting the bible with all of the atrocious lore cut out is still an asshole who condones that ALL of mankind deserves to burn in hell for all eternity because a man and a woman who never existed allegedly ate an apple from a bad tree God just so happened to misplace right in the middle of paradise. Also, a talking snake.
Despite all of my inflammatory remarks, despite my seemingly immature and berzerk nature, make no mistake that between the two of us, I am the better person. But that's not what this is about, this is about me telling you not that you can't believe whatever you want, but that if you choose to believe in this, I see you for every bit the sorry, delusional prick that you are.
Don't expect my concession just because you can babble on for hours about how God is great and loves everyone- yeah, no. He doesn't. He doesn't know what the fuck love is, and even if he does, it doesn't matter because he doesn't fucking exist. When both of us die, that's it. We're gone. No more sensation or thought, just unconscious darkness. I'm cool with that because I actually get to be alive, and the best part is that there's no purpose for it. I have no will-sapping destiny I must fulfill or birth-given obligation to spend my life in worship of some two-millenia-old book that's been cut and slashed to be pretty enough for modern day political correction.
Of the very few passages I enjoy in either Testament, their words are rooted in logic and reason, something of astounding rarity in those times and in your social circles today.
Don't bless me, because I don't need your blessing or God's blessing. They mean nothing. All the same, you have a good week too.

~TDTK

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Don-Klopfen In reply to TheDevilTheyKnow [2014-06-06 18:11:13 +0000 UTC]

You speak as if I had said things I hadn't said! You say: "you Christians can go on believing that you're so much more pure than everybody else. You're not". I have NEVER said that! Christians are sinners just like anybody else. We are not perfect at all, why it should be? You have good and bad sides, so do I, and it's the same for everybody else. The difference (in theory, because there is "christians" that haven't understand that) is that we recognize our faults, we recognize that our soul is sick and that we need a healer, and that healer is Jesus. That's why we call Him "Savior".

You said also "You're a bunch of people who are cowards about the very concept of death". A christian that is christian just because he is afraid of death isn't a good christian. In fact, i think that the atheist point of view about death is more reassuring: you die, point. Nothing else. But the Bible says that if you have done bad things in your life, you have to face the consequences. It's says that there is a hell and that there is a kingdom of God. The real motivation that a christian has do have is love, love for God, love for the others, all the others. If I love God, I will WANT to do good things, because I love Him, and because I love the others, (and also because I love myself and don't want to be a bad person, but this one come lastly). That's why, for example, I hate pornography, because of love. If a girl that I love would play in a pornographic movie, my heart would completly break! You understand? And all the women and men that act in pornography, are they less human that the girl I love? NO! They aren't! They are just as precious as her, and if it is horrible for her, it will be horrible for them too! Because I love them. It's because of love that I hate pornography, prostitution, drugs, pedophilia, and all those horrible things. It's because of love that God say to us that all those things are wrong. If he wouldn't love us, he would simply let us un sin, never talk to us, and let us all go to hell without any warning, like a bad father that let his children spring in a fire without doing anything. But God loves us.
It's also because of love that I'm talking to you here, because I love you, even if you don't care.

You also talk about all the passages in the Bible with incest, violence, etc. Again, you misunderstand that. When, for example, Lot have a incestuous relation with his daughters, God NEVER say that this is good! He doesn't approve that (I have heard other people that you saying the same kind of things about others passages in the Bible. That's a misinterpretation od the Bible. And God never said that he was happy when sinners die. In fact, he says (in Ezechiel 18:32): "I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!". There is a lot of horrible events that happens in the Bible, but that's life: horrible events happens in the reality. But that doesn't mean that God doesn't exists or that God approves this.

You also said: "you cannot imagine life without being the purposed center of the universe". We don't. God is the center of the universe, not us.

Finally, you also said "Don't expect my concession just because you can babble on for hours about how God is great and loves everyone". You're right. I cannot open your heart to Jesus by myself. Again, I'm just a human (and I'm not really good for talking and argumentation too X)  ), and you are the only one that can decide to what you will open your heart and to what you will close your heart. I've nothing more to say, and I will add nothing, because the ball is in your court, it's between you and God, I can't convince you with more writing, more arguing, that will just annoy the three of us X). It's to you to decide.

So, have a good week too, again, have an open mind, act with love even when the whole world is againts you and... well, my hope is that I will see you in heaven. Be blessed!

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Jell-o-Emperor In reply to Don-Klopfen [2014-09-03 07:27:20 +0000 UTC]

Hey, you did a great job against him, now he's offended by the word of God. For once I have left him speechless. Please root for me, my struggle has only begun!

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TheDevilTheyKnow In reply to Don-Klopfen [2014-06-07 15:15:55 +0000 UTC]

.... there's no emoticon for it, but I'm pinching the bridge of my nose in frustration. I don't know why I said goodbye to begin with, it's not like this is going to be over any time soon. I'd write a journal response to all of this, but I honestly can't be screwed about to do a complete recap of everything that's been said between us, so I'm just going to respond in kind...

First, you say that I imply you said things that you haven't. I never said these were your words, just that this is a cold reality of many Christian peoples: closeted secrets, moral high-horses, and a lack of consistency. I never meant to infer that you claimed superiority or purity over others, you didn't.
We both know some of these people do, and that's been a growing trend in America ever since the religious started infiltrating our social and federal infrastructure. Some of them believe that because they can legislate laws against two guys having buttsex with Leviticus as a flimsy excuse for why, it makes them right. It doesn't, and I won't fail to recognize that.
Let's be honest with each other: most mainstream Christians are probably members of the faith because they're more frightened of a short, finite, mortal life than any sort of pitchfork-wielding boogeyman in a non-existent lake of fire, created by the allegedly loving deity they worship. "Yes, I love you, but if you don't love me unequivocally for your entire life, I will set you on fire for the rest of existence which is forever." I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind that idea- not to believe in it, and not to be fearful of it.
As for love, what would you know about love? You do realize the word 'love' has been so saturated with hyperbolic nonsense that it essentially means nothing, right? Do you want to know what love is? Having a wife who actually performs in pornography with other men and not caring, because if the love is real, sex with other guys doesn't matter. If the love is real, she will be in your arms by day's end. Being in pornography means nothing in the abstract because real marriage- not even marriage, real love has nothing to do with sex. I think you'll find that certain members of professional pornography are some of the most kind, open-minded people on the planet, and I would know because I've met the most saintly people in my life and didn't know one of them takes dick up the ass for a living, and guess what? It was a man. That didn't change my opinion of him for the worse at all, as well it shouldn't! He's still a good guy! Haven't seen him in years, but I fondly remember him as a genuinely good person.
As I mentioned before, most Christians don't necessarily know what love is because they just repeat the word ad nauseam and expect it to develop some kind of intrinsic value that is common to everyone. What they don't understand is, love isn't the same for everyone! Love is painful, and complicated, and unique to every single person on the planet who experiences some form of it! It isn't just for "one man and one woman" to enjoy through some archaic rules defined in a book written by some old fogeys in the desert from over two thousand years ago, and it's not just some smoke screen for looking condescendingly upon people you think don't know any better! There's love between friends, and family, and total strangers, and in some cases mortal enemies have a semblence of love for one another because they give each other purpose!
By the way, how do you hate something because of love? How is that possible? "I hate prostitution and drugs because of love!" Not very tenable. As for prostitutes, drug users, etc? I can't quite say I love them, probably because I don't know any off the top of my head. In my opinion, their means of living and the lifestyle they choose matters not one fucking iota to me so long as they're not hurting anybody else, and you know what? That's fine! That's okay! It's alright, if they can manage not to mess with anybody else's life, how they live theirs is fucking irrelevent to me, you, and everybody else so far as anybody should be concerned! It has less to do with love so much as tolerance, and I- unlike yourself and so many other Christians who think they know better because some inconsistent old book tells them how to think, without doing any critical thinking for themselves!
My suggestion is you take your head out of God's ass for a few minutes, breathe some fresh air to your asphyxiated brain, and give your idea of "love" a good, long, hard look, because when put under scrutiny, it falls apart at the fucking seams. If you REALLY loved that girl getting triple-teamed by buff dudes, you wouldn't care that she's earning bankroll with a gangbang so long as she's comfortable and happy, because that's what fucking matters! I don't need God, Jesus, or the bible to love someone who deserves it, because they're the LAST things on my mind when I regard someone significant in my life! Life for any person shouldn't conform to some arbitrary set of rules to make somebody else comfortable! If that were the case, I probably would've found and garrotted you with a piano wire by now, but I don't want to because I don't have the insane notion that you should cease to exist because your people inconvenience my life in the most trite and nebulous of ways!
God takes no pleasure in killing, does he? Exodus 31:15 - "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." Or am I misunderstanding that? Sounds to me like God doesn't enjoy killing is just the kind of excuse a SERIAL KILLER would give during post-incarceration interviews! I might as well shoot someone in the leg everytime I feel really hungry: "I don't enjoy horribly maiming and crippling people for my hunger, but it must be done." Why, in the world, does your god get a free pass to do all of the horrible shit he does in the bible, not the least of which is aquatic globicide on top of the many wars he commanded prior to that? Why do you just wave it away that he kills millions of people under the guise of lawful righteousness for completely illogical reasons? Should he wage a war against the entire United States because many, many people here work on Sunday, the Sabbath?

No. No, y'know what? I'm done. If what I'm saying here can't help you pull your nose out of the bible long enough to take an objective look at the world around you and formulate a logical opinion not deep-rooted in belief, that's not my problem. It's not my responsibility to pull you out of the hole you're digging yourself into, and if you really want to cling to the massive amounts of ill-conceived conjecture that magically fills in all the gaps of life, be my fucking guest. You go ahead and respond with whatever bullshit you're going to throw out there to wave away everything I've pointed out, but you'll be wasting your time just like you've wasted mine. Don't bless me, don't wish me well, and for the love of all that is reasonable, leave me out of your fantasy afterlife. I have no want for it, and I'll be fucked if I let you think that's cool with me.

And just so you don't have to ruin your passive-aggressive peaceful disposition to point out the obvious, I'll say it for you: yes, I am a complete and total asshole, but at least when I am a good person, I mean it for nothing else than I actually care about people of my own free will. I am TheDevilTheyKnow, and you are a moron. Goodbye.

~TDTK

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CarbonWOLF7 In reply to Capn-Smollet [2012-04-26 02:55:31 +0000 UTC]

I completley agree, plus it wouldn't have exactly have been taking care of the temple of the body if he wasn't in perfect shape, and not to mention if JESUS is the example of what human perfection truly is.

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Capn-Smollet In reply to CarbonWOLF7 [2012-04-26 12:04:26 +0000 UTC]

Exactly! Perfection isn't a yellow face with sallow cheeks.
Is there a particular reason they showed him like that? I did some research and it didn't come up with any explanation for it.

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CarbonWOLF7 In reply to Capn-Smollet [2012-04-26 15:22:27 +0000 UTC]

Maybe it was to really drive home the point that he suffered for us?

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PsychedelicMind In reply to Capn-Smollet [2012-04-07 15:24:53 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the thoughts : ) It would make sense that he would be physically fit especially in the time he lived in (a far cry from our sedentary life now!) and the kind of work he did before and after he started his ministry.

Hm... As for the portrayal of him being skinny or weak I'm sure the different artists' would have had some reason/thinking behind portraying him the ways they did. Some research is in order. I'm not quite sure what pieces of work you are referring to..?

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Capn-Smollet In reply to PsychedelicMind [2012-04-07 23:20:45 +0000 UTC]

I'm sure your right but its just seems wrong to portray a truly amazing person (pff understatement of the century) in such a frail light. I can't name specifics its just something I've noticed over the years
As you say I shall look into it!

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PsychedelicMind In reply to zirta [2012-04-07 15:25:52 +0000 UTC]

thanks for the thoughts!

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PsychedelicMind In reply to thefinalfrontier1701 [2012-04-07 15:26:21 +0000 UTC]

: ) God bless you too~ cheers!

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