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poptropica123123 In reply to Inferno-12 [2020-12-09 05:12:17 +0000 UTC]

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Inferno-12 In reply to poptropica123123 [2020-12-09 05:33:03 +0000 UTC]

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poptropica123123 In reply to CreaturemasterProds [2018-05-27 05:52:43 +0000 UTC]

Thank you  And yes, that is what I had in mind. I always thought that Alien X had to face a lot of restrictions. One of the main one being having to debate with his personalities. So that weakness has been eliminated in his evolved form. Also, since he is the only evolved celestialsapien in existence, he doesn't have to deal with competition and his actions cannot be countered by another celestialsapien. I guess that makes him a bit too overpowered, but then again he IS Alien X's evolved form

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CreaturemasterProds In reply to poptropica123123 [2018-05-27 06:25:23 +0000 UTC]

I guess the only weakness he would have (at least, when it's Ben going Ultimate Alien X and not the already existing one) is that he becomes too distracted by literally controlling the entire universe to even remember that he needs to time out. He's so busy keeping the universe in balance, preventing one cosmic calamity to another from happening and manipulating the lives and destinies of "mortals" that he forgets that he's still technically a human. That, and I imagine that the original big guy doesn't take too kindly to competition and thus the two of them would be obligated to fight for literal control of the literal universe.

That, or the big guy can't influence individual lives directly and is only allowed/able to influence them indirectly. Take the destiny of Ben Tennyson himself, for example: perhaps that one Evolved Celestialsapien changed the trajectory of the Omnitrix' escape pod just the slightest so it would just so happen to land near Ben. Or maybe he allowed Paradox to be sucked into the event horizon; he could have easily prevented it from happening, considering he probably knows all that has been, is, and will be and how big of an impact Paradox has had on history, and yet he allowed it to happen.

Also, when the universe was destroyed and the Chronosapien Time Bomb went off . . . what exactly happened to him? Ben Prime was erased, meaning that his universe/the Evolved Celestialsapien that is literally the universe was both destroyed and restored in both instances. Did he just become "empty" (think of the universe like water and the Evolved Celestialsapien like a glass holding the water) or did he literally cease to exist? If that's the case, then that adds at least two more weaknesses to him (assuming the universe/Evolved Celestialsapien knew it would happen and either didn't see any reason to stop it/save himself, decided he could use a break from existence, or was unable to stop it at all).

Huh. I guess when you're dealing this kind of "phenomenal cosmic power" thing you tend to hop down a lot of rabbit holes   

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poptropica123123 In reply to CreaturemasterProds [2018-05-27 09:19:22 +0000 UTC]

Wow, I never really thought about it so deeply. I'd say that Ultimate Alien X would not try and prevent any cosmic calamity from happening and neither would he try to maintain balance in the universe (which is him). This is because since the universe is literally a part of his body, he wouldn’t have to pay attention to its working directly. It’s kind of like how humans don’t stop any of their body organs from functioning and neither do they prevent any life processes from occurring. Also, when one transforms into him using the device, they’re not the only evolved Celestialsapien in existence. The actual big guy is still there to take control of the universe. Ultimate Alien X doesn’t have to worry about that.

I’d assume that when a person transforms into Ultimate Alien X, he has to face the actual evolved Celestialsapien and attempt to rationalize with him. I wouldn’t think of them being against each other. A fight like that would mean the end of the universe. I’d assume they’d work in unison. Maybe Ultimate Alien X could be in control of a parallel universe which is exactly like the real one (and which is involuntarily created by him when he transforms into him using the device). When he uses his abilities, he isn’t altering the real universe; he’s altering the parallel one that he is in control of, not the one which the actual evolved Celestialsapien owns. So when the person transforms back, he’s in a parallel universe where the changes from Ultimate Alien X’s abilities have taken place. However, the real universe is unchanged and the real evolved Celestialsapien takes care of the side-effects and consequences that have occurred because of Ultimate Alien X.

Talking about the Chronosapien Time Bomb, I don’t think he would be affected by it. Given his ability to create dimensions and universes at will, he could have easily created a new universe and transported the Chronosapien Time Bomb there. A device like that, created by mere mortals, would be no threat for him. It may have the ability to wipe out timelines and realities, but it can’t affect a being with powers that rival that of a god.

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CreaturemasterProds In reply to poptropica123123 [2018-05-27 10:33:20 +0000 UTC]

Well, when one deals with this kind of thing, one always ends up thinking deeper than they ever thought necessary.

I suppose that makes sense, but I'm feeling a little confused here. Let's say Ben turns into Alien X and activates the Evolution Function, transforming himself into Ultimate Alien X. There are two of them now and they more or less cooperate with one another until the Omnitrix times out (which, to my knowledge, is the only "weakness" the form has, that he's essentially on a time limit regardless of whether he wills the Omnitrix to never time out or not); let's assume the Ben/Ultimate Alien X makes a semi-drastic change to the universe, such as removing several galaxies for whatever reason (this is assuming there's a threat even big enough to transform into Ultimate Alien X in the first place). When the Omnitrix times out and leaves the parallel universe that he makes behind, does the original Evolved Celestialsapien "absorb it"/make the necessary changes or does he just remain the same, in other words being "the true" Prime universe?

I feel like the only one (other than the Celestialsapiens themselves since they exist outside the universe/the Evolved Celestialsapien) would be Paradox because this seems like the kind of thing he would know after an eternity or so of traveling between realities and messing around with time. Speaking of which, what does the Evolved Celestialsapien even think of Paradox (assuming he's important enough/has a big enough of an impact to be noticed like a certain wielder of the Omnitrix), since the other Celestialsapiens apparently have a restraining order of sorts against him for whatever reason?

No matter what you might claim, everyone and everything has a weakness, no matter how small it might be or how powerful they are. Even Alien X before his evolution had multiple weaknesses, such as being vulnerable to a Chronosapien Time Bomb (yet somehow being capable of surviving the destruction of the universe), getting stuck in an endless deliberation with their multiple personalities, are incapable of manipulating mana directly without altering the universe itself to change the nature of mana first, and are capable of being frightened by Toepick's face (the personalities, that is). Even Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls, who pretty much had all the powers and abilities of a Celestialsapien at one point was able to be defeated by a mere mortal. I'm just not convinced that the form doesn't have at least one downside (possibly being the Omnitrix time out I mentioned before).

The original Evolved Celestialsapien (a name might be in order for time-saving purposes, assuming it can even be pronounced) probably doesn't suffer from any Omnitrix-related weakness, but there's gotta be something that can either beat it or at least annoy it.

And finally (because, like I said, when you talk about something this big, there are a lot of questions attached to it), what do the other Celestialsapiens think of the original Evolved Celestialsapien, assuming they're even aware it/he exists (then again, like I said, they exist outside the universe/him)? And furthermore, does this mean that he's essentially making clones himself whenever he makes another dimension or is he "the source of all reality, time, and space" or something like that?

This also kind of makes you wonder how the Slimebiotes and Contemelia even made such a thing if such a thing was required for them to exist in the first place (assuming my previous question's answer is that he is making copies of himself and they in turn are making copies of themselves when they create dimensions).

This is all of course, assuming you can understand even a lick of what I just said. Timey-whimey-dimension-shemnsion-universe-tuniverse stuff really hurts your brain.

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poptropica123123 In reply to CreaturemasterProds [2018-05-27 12:33:46 +0000 UTC]

Right, I get what you’re saying.

Okay, so when Ben transforms into Ultimate Alien X, a new parallel universe is created. In this universe, Ben himself is the one single evolved Celestialsapien that exists. He is the one with the ability to control this universe. The actual evolved Celestialsapien does have the ability to control this universe as well, but it doesn’t since they’re working in unison. It lets Ben do whatever they’ve agreed for him to do. After Ben transforms back into a human, he does NOT get transported back to the prime universe. This is not a problem as the two universes are essentially the same. He remains in the parallel universe that he has created. The changes that he has made as Ultimate Alien X remain the same. Now, since the Ben from the prime universe is no longer in existence in that universe, the evolved Celestialsapien does the necessary changes to make things right. This could be creating a new Ben Tennyson in that universe and also altering memories, etc.

Now since this parallel universe that Ben has created no longer has an Ultimate Alien X to wield it, the actual evolved Celestialsapien does absorb it. It is now a part of it too. However, the prime universe and parallel universe do not collide with each other. They are two separate universes held in the body of a single being, kind of like having different organs. That being said, the universes exist in the same timeline since they’re in the same body. One can thus travel between the two universes without having to cross dimensions.

Coming to Professor Paradox, I think the evolved Celestialsapien would definitely be aware of such a person existing because of the adverse effects he might have caused in the universe and made it handle the consequences. I would say that it would not like such a person to be anywhere near it. If Paradox is not allowed to be within 500 light years of a Celestialsapien, I think he would not be allowed within a thousand light years of the evolved Celestialsapien.

Talking about the evolved Celestialsapien’s weaknesses, it seems to have countered all the previous ones. Due to the lack of personalities, it wouldn’t be scared of Toepick’s face (I thought that was a highly stupid weakness for something as powerful as a Celestialsapien anyways). That also gets rid of his weakness of having to argue with them to do something as simple as move. Like I said before, the evolved Celestialsapien isn’t threatened by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. I’d probably say that it would still have to alter the nature of the universe itself to change the nature of mana first to manipulate it. But that could be done in seconds so it isn’t much of a weakness.

I think one of its prime weaknesses would be that it would have to make decisions really delicately. Any small change could trigger a huge calamity. The same can be said with manipulating time. It would have to alter the fabric of time very carefully if it needed to do so for whatever reason. Yes, I think that Ultimate Alien X would definitely have the downside of having to revert back to a human after a specific time period. Ben as Ultimate Alien X would definitely be annoyed by anything that he gets annoyed with as a human. So that could be a weakness for Ultimate Alien X.

Also, I thought of the evolved Celestialsapien as an ancient being which evolved from a Celestialsapien when it was hit with the energy from supernovas caused by two ancient omega planets. If something else had evolved in a similar fashion, another being with immense power, then that could be a threat to it. But that’s just based on possibility.

Like I said before, when the evolved Celestialsapien creates a dimension, universe, another reality, etc, it forms a part of its body like an organ. It is in control of it. It doesn’t have to create clones of itself to control its creations (though it can self-clone in combat if it ever faces something worth fighting with).

Also, the Slimebiotes and Contemelia created the Celestialsapiens, not the evolved Celestialsapien. It already mentioned how the evolved Celestialsapien came into being. Since it is not prone to being affected the Chronosapien Time Bomb and the Anihilaarg, there is nothing that they can do about it. I’d assume that they would try and maintain peaceful relations with it.  

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CreaturemasterProds In reply to poptropica123123 [2018-09-17 18:52:07 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, it's been so long. I think I'm finally beginning to get a grasp of the whole thing, but I have just a few more questions to tie up all the lose ends.

Alright, so let me see if I can get this straight:

Every time Ben turns into Ultimate Alien X for whatever reason, he is ejected from the universe/original Ultimate Alien X and they have a sort of debate. When they reach an agreement and Ben makes any modifications, he is making them to the universe that is inside himself at the time and when the Omnitrix/Ultimatrix times out, he returns to the parallel universe that he was. The original Evolved Celestialsapien then absorbs that parallel universe into his body at that same exact moment while simultaneously making the necessary changes to the Prime universe within him (such as making another Ben Tennyson).

So in short, this guy is essentially the Omniverse and can have upward of infinite amount of dimensions and universes inside of him? If that's the case, does that include some of the alternate dimensions we've seen, such as Mad Ben and Ben 23's dimension? What about the Null Void (it's considered a pocket dimension, so I would imagine it would be, but I just want to be sure)? And finally, what about parallel universes (or whatever the term used for the Generator Rex universe is) - are they inside of him, too, are they copies/other Evolved Celestialsapiens, are they contained by other cosmic beings, or do they simply not work that way?

Basically, what I'm asking is is the Evolved Celestialsapien responsible for every universe conceivably made or is he only responsible for any and all universes/dimensions related to the Ben 10 Omniverse/multiverse?

So . . . the Evolved Celestialsapien has a restraining order against a guy - multiple/infinite guys if my previous theory holds some weight - that can travel through and manipulate time inside him? And if that's the case, why doesn't he just erase the Chronosapiens (or are they too responsible to mess with time like Paradox does)? And while on the topic, is the Paradox that's created in the parallel universe within Ultimate Alien X (Ben) aware that the Ben in that universe is not originally from that universe or not?

I guess that also segways into my next question: do the unevolved Celestialsapiens truly exist outside of him or do they merely exist between the dimensions/universes within him? And in either case, are they aware of his existence or does he remain invisible to him until they otherwise acheive a similar state of enlightenment?

Alright, final question (and this may just be too silly/annoying to explain): if the Celestialsapien didn't exist before the Contemellia and the Slimebiotes spawned them and the universe, thus meaning there was a point where the Evolved Celestialsapien didn't exist . . . what came before then?

The ultimate "what came first, the chicken or the egg" question . . .    

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