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BookWorm999 In reply to JulianVII [2012-07-19 08:07:04 +0000 UTC]

Actually, you can be a part of a religion that doesn't believe that that was a literal account, but still believes in a deity, while perfectly accepting most acclaimed scientific theories, and not be a complete arse, and be vaguely intelligent.

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-02 06:07:31 +0000 UTC]

These people act the way they do because they read the bible and see that your book is one of the most hate filled books in existance, with God torturing, mudering, pillaging, ravaging and raping his way through thousands of years, to end the recorded violence when he raped a virgin, had her give birth to him so he could grow up and tell people about himself to later have himself sacrificed to himself to forgive the sin he put on the human race in the first place.
He gave people free will.
We either follow his word, and forgo freewill for blind faith.
Or take advantage of his gift, believe in something else and burn in hell.
A rape victim isn't comforted by the knowledge the raper had free will.
A family isn't comforted by the knowledge the killer of their family member had the free will to do so.
A family with a molested child doesn't thank God for the free will that let their child be raped.
A starving family doesn't thank God for their government's free will to be corrupt and greedy.
An atheist burning in hell forever would wonder why God gave them the logical mind to have the free will to not believe in him.
A Hindu would wonder why God gave people the free will to create other religions, and let them spread, so that billions of people would burn for their faith.
If your comforted by the idea that following this evil being will let you live peacefully in heaven, you most ignore the fact that a paradise is a horrible place. The world is interesting because it is dangerous, and random, you never know what will happen. A paradise is perfect, nothing happens that is surprising, you will spend millions to billions of years doing the same thing.

You most also be able to ignore the fact that for every person in heaven, 10 go to hell, so well you spend eternity kissing God's feet, 10 people spend eternity burning and suffering, many only commiting the sin of not being God fearing.

You can't say God will let in anyone whos good, because he makes it clear thoughout the New and Old books, that only true believers in him will ever get saved and everyone else should be stoned and murdered.

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-02 14:37:59 +0000 UTC]

You have a very narrow view of God.

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-02 15:04:00 +0000 UTC]

I have a view from the bible. If thats narrow, then I don't know how you can have a wide view, is their another bible not full of genocide and hate?

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-03 03:09:44 +0000 UTC]

There is only one Bible version that is complete and true. If your view of the Bible is that Christ was born by his other entity / his Father raping a virgin, then you read the wrong book

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-03 07:03:19 +0000 UTC]

And how do you know this bible is complete and true, because there are hundreds of different bibles out there and each paint it as God raping Mary
She was informed that she would give birth to a saviour and not asked if she wanted to, until after it happened. Thats rape.
If she was a virgin( Which Religious historians already have proven she wasn't) then Jesus took her virginity, so thats creepy as hell.

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-03 10:51:43 +0000 UTC]

The Bible I'm speaking of is translated from original Greek and Latin, before the Protestant Reformation, which saw the removal of 7 books in the Bible.

Mary never refused, she was prepared for this, she was born sinless, so she can give birth to a Saviour named Jesus. And she said 'My soul magnifies the Lord' which, I think, indicates that she was overjoyed that she has the highest honour of giving birth to the Son of God. Also, it wasn't rape, it's called a miracle, which I highly doubt you believe in it. Lastly, if you are going to continue to be a kid and spew mindless hatred instead of conversing like a grown up, I'm just going to ignore you, no loss for me or you if it comes to that. Besides, you think you are the first person to say such idiotic things to me?

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-03 16:38:39 +0000 UTC]

I would say the person that taught you to believe in a magic pink unicorn with a son that has wine for blood, were the first people to say such idiotic things to you.

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-04 06:59:38 +0000 UTC]

Of course you would think it's idiotic, why wouldn't you? You can't/don't/don't want to understand the Lordship of Christ, his willing sacrifice for us, his Passion, death and resurrection, the Eucharist. It's only natural to say something is stupid because you don't understand it.

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-04 07:17:18 +0000 UTC]

You want to know why I believe your book written by women hating slave owners?
[link]
Because their are plenty of other books written by women hating slave owners to choose from.
You want to know why I'm an atheist, I read the bible, science and history books, I noticed they didn't line up, at all. I looked at the differences.
One written from stories passed down by word of mouth by people who had no idea why plants grew. With stories obviously copied from other religions. No matter how much it is proven wrong, it doesn't matter because its just a metaphor.
The other written down right when its found and then peer reviewed, constantly built on and tested by the smartest minds on earth. If its proven wrong, scientists cheer and its broken body is left to rot as they accept the new ideas that will come up to replace it and repeat the process until it all makes sense.
So which do you think is the right choice.
I know science can't disprove a god, because the very definition of a god is undisprovable, but it has proved that if the bible god exists, he knew less about how his own creation worked, then a highschool student.

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-04 08:10:29 +0000 UTC]

Women hating slave owners? Most of Jesus' disciples were married with children, they did not own slaves, and the Bible is written by them under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

The word of God and the word of men will not line up, I'm glad you noticed. God's Words are not simple to understand, people have different interpretations, which is why you see so many denominations. Some interpretations are outrageously wrong.

You said "The other written down right when its found and then peer reviewed, constantly built on and tested by the smartest minds on earth. If its proven wrong, scientists cheer and its broken body is left to rot as they accept the new ideas that will come up to replace it and repeat the process until it all makes sense." There are things that cannot be tested, no matter how many experiments you do, no matter how you experiment, test all you like, there are things that just will never be explained with 'tests'. Why do we believe in God? Prove of God? Why is that flower beautiful? Test that.

You can't know what God is thinking, because you a)have not seen him b) don't believe He exists and c) He is God.

By the way, I agree with you 100% what you said before: "I would say the person that taught you to believe in a magic pink unicorn with a son that has wine for blood, were the first people to say such idiotic things to you." That is very idiotic sounding indeed.

Oh and by the way, since you are an atheist, I think you know who formulated the Big Bang Theory, don't you?

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-04 11:03:27 +0000 UTC]

How can you tell your interpretation is right? You can't prove that your god is right, or is the only god. The second you prove one god false, is the second your god is proven false.

You believe in a omnipotent, omnipresent and completely good god. That doesn't make sense, no matter his reason for doing it, any omnipresent and omnipotent god who creates thousands of diseases, viruses, poisons, starvation, rape, murder, birth defects, is not okay. The amount of time it would have taken to design all those things is sickening.

He so happily gives us freewill. The freewill to follow his faith and kill all non-believers, or just hate gay people and limit their freedom. The free will to follow other gods and burn forever/ or just a certain amount of time. The free will to not follow gods and burn forever. The free will to commit acts of horrible genocide, mass murder, child rape etc.
He allows governments in the third world the free will to over work and starve their people.
He gives us the free will to be raped, murdered, stolen from, cheated, scammed, lied to, beaten.

If a god is all powerful, then it makes no sense you could possibly write a book about it, without having to make a book the size of the universe.

Bigger books then the bible can be written about chickens.
Does a book written 2000 years ago about chickens contain more truth and knowledge then any written today?

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-04 12:10:52 +0000 UTC]

Firstly, we believe in only One God. Why do I say my God is the true God? He created the universe, He sent His Son down to preach to Jerusalem and to spread the truth, and to die, in order to fulfill the Scriptures, only to be risen up 3 days later. That is God, He is love. He gave the world a chance of salvation, whether you choose to believe or not is up to you.

God is not of love, or anything good, God IS love and goodness. God gave us freewill, of course some of us abuse that freewill. God also did not create evil, He sometimes permits evil in His creations so that a greater good might come out of it. You are not looking at the bigger picture. You also over generalize Christianity. And you think religion is the main source of evil? Get real. Religion is not evil, crazy fanatics who claim that they are religious, are evil.

You blame EVERYTHING on religion, on God, everything evil, please, you think God just says 'Go right ahead, steal that car, and kill the owner'? What absurdity. I was right in the very beginning of this fruitless conversation, you view of God is very narrow. You claim that your view of God is from the Bible? Nope, your view of God is that of a person who thinks he can live without God and be happy and fine until his last breath. And you would think only religious people are fanatics and extremists, hey buddy, look in the mirror. You are full of hatred, does that feel good?

God does not send people to Hell, people send themselves to Hell, with their actions, and the decisions they make. And frankly, IF you do go to Hell, you should be happy and grateful, because you hate God so much you can't stand to hear about Him, you completely reject Him. To reject God is to reject Love, because God is Love. Hell is far away from Love, think of it as a favour from the Lord, since you can't stand Love, then you can dwell in the alternative, Hell, which is all but full of hatred and evil. I will pray that you do not end up in Hell however, even if you hate me and my God, and would prefer if I keep my 'medieval mumbo-jumbo' to myself. Sorry, I can't, my God taught me to love, even my enemies. God bless you.

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Disestablish In reply to Al-LZQ [2012-06-04 20:47:40 +0000 UTC]

I don't hate you, like most religious people, you were born into it, you were raised with it, surronded by it, preached it, grew out of the santa claus belief with it still. Belief in a higher power, well, your higher power, becomes as much of your life as breathing.
Just think of this, kids used to grow up surronded by racism, they were raised with it, preached it, and never met someone to disprove the idea that skin colour makes you a better human. That doesn't mean it is right, doesn't mean its true.
I bring up racism because no matter which religion you follow, even one of the kinder ones, like Buddhism, it teaches you that somehow you are better then others of different faith, that a god is smiling on you, that you've seen the truth and others haven't, or that you were good in a old life so you get to be super rich in this life, well others slowly starve to death because they were bad in past life.
Religion is good (Except Scientology, those guys are dicks), but they all have their evils.
Atheism may not have those same evils, but like religion, it sure is there.
May Ted the drunken alien shine light upon your world.

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Al-LZQ In reply to Disestablish [2012-06-05 06:13:47 +0000 UTC]

I can finally agree with you, at least 90% of what you said. Yes, Scientologists are seriously demented people lol.

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petheadclipon In reply to dusk-shadow [2010-06-06 22:33:42 +0000 UTC]

I had heard that before and if it's true, then they are incredibly dedicated to their facade. They're extreme without being blatently satirical. That and they've been at it for quite some time, which would lead me to believe that they are genuine, christian fanatics. I don't know, though. It could really be either.

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dusk-shadow In reply to petheadclipon [2010-06-07 10:55:38 +0000 UTC]

You have a point. But, if that's the case, all this aggression and pessimism of these people bugs me.
I guess the way people interpret their religion depends on their personalities...

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petheadclipon In reply to dusk-shadow [2010-06-09 02:54:28 +0000 UTC]

That is very true.

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petheadclipon In reply to ixfalia [2010-02-01 02:11:25 +0000 UTC]

No, by all means butt in.

I find the theological discussions very enjoyable and I like hearing all points of view.

Now, while I can't speak for all atheists in this case me lumping buddhism in with the other religions is purely accidental. To be perfectly honest I don't really consider buddhism to be a "religion" or at least not in the same sense that I see christianity as a religion. To me religion is the corruption of spirituality and buddhism seems to have very little corruption compared to the other faiths.

I know a bit about buddhism and agree with most of it. In fact if I were to subscribe to any religion it would most likely be buddhism.

As for the teddy bear analogy I would agree with buddhism being the acception. Perhaps not the more mystical aspects of it such as reincarnation (though I can see it taken metaphorically), but the over all idea would still be handy to hold onto.

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ixfalia In reply to ixfalia [2010-02-01 01:36:11 +0000 UTC]

Sorry for double posting but man I was too forward in this, I'm sorry if I insulted anyone with this. I feel like I was shoving my religion down your throats.

What I did want to convey is that Bad people are bad people, no matter what belief or morality system, I'm sure there's going to be someone who says "I'm right, and I'm going to close my mind because I don't want to be convinced I'm wrong." When we as a race culturally, socially, and mentally evolve beyond that, we will achieve greater things.

I also would like to say thank you to everyone in this thread, it was very enlightening. I have rare chances to see what people such as yourselves think about religion.

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petheadclipon In reply to ixfalia [2010-02-06 04:28:16 +0000 UTC]

If anyone should be worried about offending people it should be me. Though I don't think offending people is necessarily a bad thing. People seem to put their beliefs, and in turn themselves, on such a high pedestal that they can't stand any form of criticism and I think it's good to bring them back down to earth sometimes.

That being said I didn't feel at all like you were shoving anything down my throat. And I would agree that religion doesn't make people bad, though it is a very powerful amplifier which is one of the reasons I dislike it.

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petheadclipon In reply to fillemedkniven [2010-01-31 23:46:44 +0000 UTC]

Haha, that is probably one of my more favorite arguements the non-existance of at least any omnipotent being. Some might conclude that God isn't omnipotent which to me such God would not really be worth worshipping. The entire concept of omni- anything be it omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc. is internally contradictory and if something like that were to exist it would be infinitely beyond the limits of our minds to where we couldn't even comprehend it, again making worship is pointless.

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pokequaza In reply to sorakairi1014 [2010-01-31 21:33:12 +0000 UTC]

You have to be either religious or an atheist. If you do believe in a god or higher being you are religious. If you don't you are an Atheist (unless you're a budist for example, it is a religion, but without a god).

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petheadclipon In reply to pokequaza [2010-01-31 22:46:02 +0000 UTC]

You could be agnostic.

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sorakairi1014 In reply to pokequaza [2010-01-31 22:06:47 +0000 UTC]

well id like to think that there's a high thing out there, but im not on the religious side, so couldnt i sorta be in-between somewhere? :\
but thats just really everyone's opinions in things i find

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petheadclipon In reply to sorakairi1014 [2010-01-31 22:45:35 +0000 UTC]

You could be an agnostic or a deist/pantheist.

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sorakairi1014 In reply to petheadclipon [2010-01-31 22:56:39 +0000 UTC]

i find deist fits :> thanks

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petheadclipon In reply to sorakairi1014 [2010-01-31 23:08:37 +0000 UTC]

Any particular reason you identify more with that one? I'm not trying to dispute you, I just find this subject very interesting and I like to here peoples' thoughts on the matter.

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sorakairi1014 In reply to petheadclipon [2010-02-01 00:15:12 +0000 UTC]

hmm..nothing in particular, my parents tried to raise me as a christian (even though they're not themselves) but i never really got into the whole bible thing personally. but the part about some higher being watching over everyone sorta just clung on to me i guess.
so basically i believe that theres a god but thats pretty much it...and i dont think he/she hates everyone XD

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pokequaza In reply to sorakairi1014 [2010-02-01 06:49:12 +0000 UTC]

So you believe without any reason? if I may ask.

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sorakairi1014 In reply to pokequaza [2010-02-02 01:44:52 +0000 UTC]

I suppose so.

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fillemedkniven In reply to petheadclipon [2010-01-31 23:31:53 +0000 UTC]

I'm pretty much like sorakairi here. Though I see myself as an atheist I admit that there are some thing that just cannot be explained, like what started IT all? what was there before the Big Bang? All that's happened after the BB though I believe can be scientifically explained.

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ericleb010 In reply to fillemedkniven [2010-02-06 16:13:43 +0000 UTC]

I don't like that thought one bit.

Just because something seems irreducibly complex, does not necessarily make it that way. Everything is explainable, and all we need is time to find the explanation, be it in three years or three thousand years.

If something happened and no one can explain it, the default option for people is to say "it is impossible" or "god did it." People have to learn to remind themselves that there is such thing as a future, and that future will come with massive developments in every realm of science.

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petheadclipon In reply to fillemedkniven [2010-02-01 01:19:51 +0000 UTC]

I'm probably the similar in that regard. I consider myself an atheist, but I don't know everything and there could very well be a God.

In some way we're all sort of agnostic. No body actually knows for an actual fact whether God exists or not. We can only speculate.

One of the reasons I'm not a pantheist is that I think that the universe would so much different if it was created by some being. For one why bother with a physical realm? Better yet, why create anything at all? If the universe was indeed created by some being it would mean that the being had some reason for doing so meaning that that being is not perfect. In that case I would have to ask what is the prupose of the universe and what would happen once the reason for creating the universe is reached. I would also have to ask what is the purpose of the creator in the first place.

I think that using God as an explanation spawns more questions than it answers.

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ericleb010 In reply to petheadclipon [2010-02-06 16:18:27 +0000 UTC]

I suppose you could say that we are all Agnostic in a way, but just because you can't disprove the existence of a flying pink unicorn, doesn't mean his chances of existing rises statistically.

As an Atheist, I place my personal probabilities of there being a god at 0.000001%. Agnosticism should not exist unless you TRULY BELIEVE that the odds of both scenarios happening (god or no god) are deadlocked at 50%. But that's just piss poor reasoning, so to speak.

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