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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-19 15:00:22 +0000 UTC]

i always thought rodimus was a more interesting character then prime because he is always measuring himself up to prime not to say that furmans prime isnt interesting far from it
rod just ha s more potential to be intersting maybe becaus ehe is still basically unexplored

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-19 22:45:49 +0000 UTC]

I agree in every respect except the unexplored part. I think part of people's trouble with him is that they DID explore him as an individual - with faults and everything. No, no! An Autobot leader isn't supposed to have faults or complaints! Lots of people couldn't handle that.

Don't take this as me not adoring Op, cause I do, but he was very rarely seen as anything but the utterly unflappable Optimus Prime. There are a few exceptions to that, but only a few. I think the writers wrote him as the ultimate wise father archetype and left all of his vast potential sitting there. WE all adored him, but Hasbro had no clue what they had on their hands until they killed him off.


If you really add up what they did for him, they didn't show the character all that much respect. His accomplishments are: 1. Fight unending war which completely depletes home-world of power 2. Crash on Earth and bring war there. 3. Lose Cybertron completely to Megatron. 4. Die without training an heir. Not much of a resume` really.

True, they did better AFTER half the parents on the planet wrote in and said "Why the heck is my kid sobbing after seeing this movie?" but if you go off the Gen 1 cartoon Op really got shafted. Then Rodi comes along and actually pulls some good stunts like taking back Cybertron (with Unicron's help of course), fending off both the Cons and the Quints, and annoying the heck out of some human politicians (that's a big one), but people get annoyed with him because he has the nerve to point out the job pretty much sucks.

That's why I decided that Vector Sigma manipulated both sides and programed the key players to keep the war going. I like Op too much to blame all that bad writing on him.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-19 22:57:31 +0000 UTC]

actually i rarley if ever go along with the cartoon i hate the cartoon
i am a marvel comics tf fan all the way and in the marvel comics optimus is anything but infallable
the uk mini arc crisis of command is a prime example of that and so are the us comics written by furman ( us 53 and up ) hell everything written by furman is pretty much good
a pacifist who holds all life sacred and yet is embroilled in a eternal war and has deep seated confidence problems
and he always seems to die ..or maybe he just wants to die heh
still the only thing i like about the cartoon is season 3 where they went a totally differnt way for rodimus and made him vunerable and more of a rounded character
that did not sit well with the core audiance at the time but as far as characters go cartoon rodimus is far more interesting then cartoon optimus could ever be

comics though thats another ball park and the comics are vastly superior
...btw its not vector sigma its primus who pulls the strings and hardwired his childeren in to fighting to hone themselfs for the coming apocalypse ( unicron tf us 75 ) sigma could be a proxy

or maybe i should just watch beast machines more
which si one of the few tf cartoon serie si love because the characters are so flawed primal is portrayed as anything but a perfect hero and its great

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-20 02:59:37 +0000 UTC]

Heh...that's funny. I rarely go along with the comics. I hated the US version, loved the UK Simon F. stuff, but couldn't lay my hands on more than 2-3 issues at a time. Usually, I couldn't get a somplete storyline either. It was only recently when they published the series as graphic novels that I was able to piece the tattered tale together, far to late to influence my universe.

BTW in my universe it is Vector Sigma that manipulates the factions, since I didn't read the comics enough to know much about Primus. Since he wasn't ever mentioned in the cartoon, he is not part of my fiction so far.

I do agree the UK books did a much better job rounding out the characters in general, and Op in particular. It doesn't matter. I think story lines are to us like a first reference is to baby birds. We imprint on what we see at an impressionable moment. In any case, I use both boys, and tried, way back when, to make up for what the cartoon lacked at the time. Rodimus would probably be considered the main character, since he was always most interesting to me too, but Op gets his share of screen time as it were.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-21 07:56:08 +0000 UTC]

the us version has some good stuff it sonly too bad that budiansky had a fondness to go off on a tangent or deal with the sillier stuff but there is some good stuff in there the firt 12 issues the smelting pool pretty much nything with blaster ( yes this includes the space hikers and the fight with grimlock ) and then there are his more sillier ideas the whole skids charlene thing megatron becoming a weapon for a human criminal the car wash of doom the mechanibals primes death ( urgh i dont mind that prime died just hwo he died for a fucking video game and he insisted to be killed its like he wanted to commit suicide the real shame is that this piece of trash was followed by two absolute amazing works showing that budiansky could write wel when he wanted to megatron got a better send off then prime ) how grimlock turned in to a idiot tyrant and al the bots in to simpering morons
and then suddenly there was the furmanator and things suddenly became a lot better

primus is their god he is cybertron and whats left of him is a face and a conciousness deep in cybertron with a bit of retconning vectro sigma can be seen as the proxy that gives live via primus who is subconciously pulling its strings after al sigma like the oracle is justa super computer ( oh yes i got that from beast machines best tf cartoon series ever bar only bw )

i have been a tf fan for 21 years now almost 22 been one since 86 and i watched the cartoon but i latched on to the comic more then the cartoon and when you get down to it the output of furman is better thent he cartoon or the us comic coudl ever be i recently tried to watch the cartoon it made me cringe and i turned it off
season 1 is mercifully short and surprisingly decent season 2 is just filled with crap and season 3 has high and low points mostly high though ( lets bring back optimus as a zombie evil >: ) and they did it too even more evil )
generally speaking i dont have a high opinion of the animated series apart from beast wars and machines
though i reserve special loathing for the japanese ones
headmaster is ...urgh quirky with an arsing stupid plot and a constant emphasis on the gimmick after 12 episodes we get it enouigh with the damn head on stupid ending
masterforce :..it burns ! human overload fucking uman overload transformers are reduced to playing second fiddle and mechs in their own show ! if i want to see mechs il watch gundam not transformers thank you crap series
victory : oh this is where the hurting starts more bloody annoying humans and too much emphasis on humor all threat ofthe decepticosn evaporates even when they try to be ard ..naff flush it down the drain where it belongs
bw second bw neo ......................primus be with me
rid : oh now this is the pits robots in disgust after bm and bw this was just as welcome as a ice cold shower of piss right in the face after the serious science fiction of bm and bw we get this chidl orientated slapstick garbage its quite obvious where transformers are aimed at in japan pandering to the lowest common denominator which si a shame because it destroyed a lot of the serious sf mindset bm and bw created and gave us anime formers for the past decade
which is also something i loath about the jap series those damn transformation sequences they become a mini show a few times is okay but after 30 episodes you know em already
okay okay ill stop
because in the end it doesnt make a damn bit of difference what version you like in what medium ( comics and the beats series for me ) we are al transformers fans and that ought to be enough

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-22 12:14:35 +0000 UTC]

Heh...I read all the Gen 1 and 2 comics, and all the UK ones I could find. After that, the small matter of being broke slowed me down considerably on the comic end. I took a 10 K paycut to move to Florida and get married - worth every penny but cut down on my book buying a tad. I loved Beast Wars...was somewhat OK with Beast Machines, and after that quit watching. I have yet to see a chibli episode. Ya know, I'm pushing 40 here and some things I guess I'm finally too old for. It hardly matters, to each their own.

The Japanese animators...well...all animators...use stock footage as much as possible because it cuts costs and their bosses make em. The longer the sequence, the less the studio has to pay for fresh animation. Cheap jerks they think the kids they assume are watching are too stupid to notice.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-22 12:21:05 +0000 UTC]

your never too old to do what you enjoy
im 25 and i stil play with the toys
and the comics and cartoons are made by adults sure money is ininvolved but you cant do that if you dont like what your doing especially furman

its not really the stock footage thats the problem its that in every episode during the course of the series the gimmick sequence is played up like a show instead of something that happens naturally to that transfromers
as if the whole battle field stops because they employ their little gimmick
at least the american cartoon didnt stoop to thos elows at least not before rid

i like beast machine sbecause it was quite dark and opressive with a flawed hero and megatron on the brink of victory you dont get that much in a transformers series thats not written by furman

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-22 14:11:48 +0000 UTC]

Do I look like I've given up anything? Heh...I sit in a silver and hematite office covered with movie posters and toys...between me and my hubby we have quite a collection! I am just too old to think chiblis or whatever are interesting enough to get into them now.

As for the gimmick thing, that has always been one of my pet peeves... I always want to yell at the characters. It takes 5 minutes for the combiners to combine or whatever...didn't any of you idiots figure out to interrupt them? If you did you wouldn't have to worry about what ever big bad gimmicky thing is on the way. I saw Hot Rod disrupt one combiner group from merging in one Japanese episode and was so happy I almost fell out of my chair.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-22 15:21:35 +0000 UTC]

thats also one thing that irritates me about the jap cartoons if there is a combiner team present they wil always combine immediatly no individual teams immediatly a combined form
..bleh

but the jap series did a few good things too headmasters being robots instead of humanoids ( whats a hm supposed to do when hsi head dies ? ) or to make pretenders real human sized pretenders
but other then that ....too many fucking umans
i watch transfromers for exactly that the tf's not some damn fleshie getting in the way

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-23 02:26:13 +0000 UTC]

Heh...don't read my stuff then. Lots of humans, mutants, and other aliens all over.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-23 11:04:07 +0000 UTC]

the only fleshies i can stomach are the beast formers and the binary bonded ones
oh hunter jimmy and verity from idw are decent too and so was buster at least he played a important part and at least he had the good common sense to stay the hell out of harms way

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-23 12:37:48 +0000 UTC]

OK...then you might not mind mine so much. No headmasters at all...I follow the cartoon line up to that point but started writing before those episodes aired. They don't fit, and I hate them too much to make them fit. The organics in my stuff have a purpose in the broader story and it is NOT to give the guys something to rescue over and over. Heh...

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-23 12:40:51 +0000 UTC]

thank primus for that
if wondering i have drawn some fan art of transformers mostly turning them in to catgirls ( and a request to turn stargit in to a catboy) and i have a silverscreen fan character clunking around from time to time who is a techno organic transformer with a datsun alt mode ( long complicated story how she got that it involves a pretender shell ) cat ina car can

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-23 12:53:35 +0000 UTC]

I've seen them. Cute

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-25 14:23:19 +0000 UTC]

cute is not a word usually associated with my work

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illmatar In reply to bluekatt [2007-12-25 15:36:39 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I know. Don't be offended. Your work leans towards kinky, but then I think snakes are cute too. And my first kiss was an 11 foot untied alligator....on the lips. I was in 3rd grade. I told my man I had to wait a long time to find someone who could top that kiss for excitement.

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bluekatt In reply to illmatar [2007-12-25 15:56:42 +0000 UTC]

softporn
and with a character like mischa things tend to end up ...kinky
though usually i am a fantasy- horror artists and veered off to softporn for some reason i blame mischa
she should be a old fashioned pyschopatic vampire and what do i get ? a slutty one
though at times i do do horror again ( this is halloween for one )

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