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JudithMayr β Fire and Ice - Sketch02
Published: 2011-07-29 12:49:04 +0000 UTC; Views: 1213; Favourites: 16; Downloads: 0
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Current progress. Ang, your redline proved incredibly helpful, though I really wasn't happy with the pose of Rubin's head so I decided on a middleground between your proposal and my own initial sketch.Now the $100 question.... strategically placed ice/steam or clothing? xD
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Comments: 15
Ahoy m'dear! Wanted to jump in on the first revision, but you've already made some cool changes on Ang's suggestions. I have a couple more minor tweaks for you, mostly on anatomy and composition. I've done a quick redline/anim for ya, so you can see the tweaks, rather than me try to explain:
redline: [link]
Before/after: [link]
Basically the perspective on his main torso was off - the left pec (as we see it) was wider that the right, despite being on the far side of the body, and the abs and muscles down his front all seemed to dip in a lot, without there being the curve of the spine on the right to suggest he was quite that hunched - so Iv'e fixed the centre line of his body and adjusted all the muscles accordingly. - his left hand side (as we view it) bulged out too much, and should curve in to follow the curve on the right of his body.
I think his crotch should be up a little higher, and the hip/abdominal muscles would be positioned in a little more. Men's butts and hips are often a lot chunkier than you'd think - especially with a more muscular build), so made him a little wider around the hips.
His head and neck needed the most tweaking, as his neck and shoulder felt very hunched - his neck especially is probably too thick, and you'd see more of the jaw jutting out than you currently have. Hiis ear is very very low down compared to the rest of the features of his face and thus his cheek bones feel like they're not really attached to anything (normally they'd come out from just in front of the ear. For the up-facing angle, his hairline, even with the scales, was still at the sort of position I'd expect to see it if he were looking down, so I'd push that up more. and move the rest of the features up accordingly. You could also potentially make his features a little larger too - his face and head are feeling smaller than Rubin's at the moment. - making him feel more child-like (kids features tend to be smaller in comparison to the size of their heads) - at odds with his mucscley body!
Final thing I tweaked a little was the positioning of rubin's wings and Sruarg's leg - The leg especially as it makes him feel more like he's leaning into her, relying on her strength , but without making him look a little droopy as I feel he looks a little with his legs bent. That line also echoes the line of her wing if you bring it in a little. I've also angled her wings on more of a downward diagonal too, to counteract the diagonal line you get from their bodies.
Green lines are just there so you can see how I'd construct the body or face roughly before going into muscle detail - Michael Hampton's anatomy book is amazing for teaching this method - one of the most helpful I've ever read. [link] (a few examples of the pages)
Overall, I actually really really like this piece - I think the statuesque pose is wonderfulyl strong yet lovingly soft at the same time - and if you can help it I'd say dont' put clothes on either of them (flamey/smokey trails hiding stuff ftw) as that will make both of them feel more human, rather than this slightly ethereal feel they both have at the moment. The flame/smoke swirls will also counterbalance the straight lines you have running through the rest of the composiiton. Can't wait to see how you tackle that colours on it!
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Wow! It's coming along beautifully Jude! e.deviantart.net/emoticons/b/b⦠" width="15" height="15" alt="
There are still some areas I see that need tweaking (listed below) but for the most part I think you've really got something here!
Some things I think still need work are:
His arm. His right arm (the one touching her face) is still attracting my attention in an uncomfortable way. The angle at which he has his arm, (from chest to elbow) is not possible as they are intertwined now, at least not possible with him still touching her face. I think if you lose him touching her face you're going to lose a lot of emotional conveyance in the piece so I'd love for you to be able to keep that. Her arm would not be able to reach around him and touch his face though, for that to happen. I've done a redline on a slightly 'newer' version than this one (courtesy of Ang). For the redline, click here!
Their hands touching. While their hands are touching in the piece, they don't match their owners bodies. The hands seem at a different perspective than the rest of the picture, or at least too short. Above all, they don't look like their interacting convincingly. I also poked at that in the redline. Also, in the redline I drew a human ear on the guy because I don't know what other kind of ears he might have but I figured you'd deal with that. e.deviantart.net/emoticons/w/w⦠" width="15" height="15" alt="
The guy's facial expression. It needs some kind of tweaking. Right now it looks like he's tense and in the redline version I see you've closed his eyes but the tension is still there, if not more evident in the most current version. Take a picture of your face at a similar angle and try to express the emotion you think he should have and you should be able to draw the correct kind of tension/expression from that.
Some good things I like about this piece are:
Rubin's face. It's spot on for the emotion you're trying to get across I think and it really makes an impact with the viewer.
The wings. The bend in them makes all the difference. Your defining of the feathers is wonderful (I'm lucky to have so many friends who know how to draw wings! o_O; ).
His abs. They're still awesome. I especially love where you've gone up on the rib cage and added the impression of the muscles there. So cool.
So yes! Keep working, it's looking FABULOUS! :3
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Oh my but I do love Rubin's expression here! That's an excellent unification of ideas.e.deviantart.net/emoticons/s/s⦠" width="15" height="15" alt="
I do wonder now about Sruarg's expression, in that his gaze is leading off to nowhere? He's not looking at Rubin but, sort of straight forward and upwards, as if he doesn't even notice her there. I would play with perhaps tilting his head back even more so he can connect with her somehow via gaze (which would be more work e.deviantart.net/emoticons/let⦠" width="15" height="15" alt="
On an anatomy sidenote, I feel as if Rubin's crotch is a little too low? Either because her upper body is projecting forward some (meaning her lower body would be in slight foreshortening while at the moment her crotch is where it would be if she was standing more straight up, which contradicts the perspective of her wings).
Poked at a quick redline for the angel rump and crotch:
[link]
As for clothing? Now that is a question! The thing I hate about covering up the naughty bits with convenient swirls is that it looks so purposeful most of the time, and generally ends up drawing your eye RIGHT to the area...but on the other hand, it is very easy to draw the naughty bits incorrectly and end up with either huge exaggerated hentai bits OR bits that just look...off.
Maybe you can lightly sketch in some clothing on Sruarg in PS? I can see him in beat up, ripped and torn pants, shirtless, with scrapes and bruises here and there. That would really push the theme of her 'saving' or 'freeing' him, as the feel of this seems right now. As for Rubin, call this a double-standard, but the gal looks great nude here! She should stay that way, in my opinion. XD She has such primal power that way. Clothing or armor would detract from the feel that she's pulling him out of the ice on sheer natural power of fire, will, and LOVE.β₯
A trick for sketching digitally, try using a dark grey plus the Pencil tool set to 80% opacity. I've been doing that lately and it feels and looks a bit more natural than using the Brush tool. (I know you are using GIMP now and I am thinking it also has a Pencil tool?) Course now I can't recall if you have a tablet, but that makes digital sketching about 150 times easier as well!
For a traditional way of seeing if clothing will look good, try overlaying the image with tracing paper and previewing what the changes might look that way.
The changes you've made look fab! You're well on your way to a masterpiece. Go go go! e.deviantart.net/emoticons/b/b⦠" width="15" height="15" alt="
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Okay, tried my hand with a tracing paper overlay of your shredded pants idea and I think I like it. Also slightly edited Sruarg's facial expression and Rubin's pose. Give me your thoughts.
[link]
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Excellent! I think you hit the nail on the head on both counts.
Also might I say that I love clothing AND swirlies (if you were pondering whether it had to be one OR the other). Maybe if you can make the swirlies translucent so it shows the clothing beneath?
I see you added a bit of flame to Rubin too. Those are going to be fun to aid in that lovely swoosh! Maybe break up the flames around her a bit so they don't look like a solid object? Have them trailing off into the swoosh?
I found this swooshie bonfire for great reference! [link]
Weeee! It's gonna be beautiful.
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I'm right with you there on Sruarg'S expression. Especially since the moment I scanned in the piece. I was going to go for closed eyes as I'm actually too afraid to mess up with repositioning his head.
I agree with you on Rubin's pose though. That one's off. Thanks again for the redline.
The problem is... I don't want there to be manbits at all. Not because I have a personal problem with them but because... it just feels off in a way. Like it doesn't fit. Leaving Rubin in the nude isn't exactly a problem since Sruarg's body covers her up nicely. I was going to play around with maybe trailing her form off into at least a hint of the originaly flamey body along her legs. Then again that could be a tad too overpowering.
Sadly I don't have a tablet (been on my wishlist for a while but I don't want to get a sh*tty one and the somewhat better ones are outside of my financial range atm)
Though I'll take you up on that tracing paper suggestion. That's what I was going to do to try out the fire-idea anyway.
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Also, I loove what you've done with her wings. The repositioning looks really nice and accentuates that forward wrapping motion.:3
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I can understand about fully exposed manbits! While I don't dislike nudity, it can add more of a sexual mood to a piece that should be more sensual in nature (sensual being an understatement of what is sexual and more of a focus on mood and feeling with hints of sexuality in more subtle ways). It'd also be nice not to have to mark this as mature so the most people get to see it.
Manbits censorship doesn't take anything away from this piece either, which is always nice to not have to worry about.
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Yeah that's pretty much it - thanks for phrasing what I myself couldn't quite wrap into words... wait...
DIDN'T I TELL YOU TO GET THE HELL OUT OF MY HEAD, MISSUS!!!
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ahah sorry sorry! I keep wandering in here when I'm trying to find the kitchen. XD
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....... the kitchen...?????
You, missus, are a glutton for punishment. (And btw, it would be much easier to talk to you if you would show up in IMs
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Eh? I'm on AIM now, but I do not see you either. O_o
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This is a great image and the way the different beings interact with each other is great, it's almost delicate. All the critiques have been very well handled and have had their points. I was going to go the opposite way on one point made, though. It may just be the way I see things, but the woman's body is spot on. It's her wings that are off. If I'm seeing it correctly she is lifting off of the ground due to a down thrust so, from the perspective of her body reacting to that force, the slight recoil and bend at the waist is perfect. The issue then becomes the wings attachment to her back. I'm assuming shoulder blades or the base of her trapezius muscle on either side of the spine. Either way the top of the wings would have to come up over her shoulders and the parts of the wings in the background would have to be fore shortened but arching forward to meet the wing tips. I don't know if I'm seeing it right but from some of the erased lines it looks like you were sorta thinking the same thing when you started. Aside from that his crotch is correct. He is leaning back consequently his pelvis would be angled towards the viewer. sorry for the upcoming vulgarity but it's the only way I can think to put it, you have the lower abdominal muscles, the pubis, the "Unit" and then...taint. The amount of space allotted is correct it just a matter of shading to make it look right. All in all though, great concept awesome line work, just a really cool image.
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