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HowXu In reply to CommanderEX [2013-05-02 05:08:29 +0000 UTC]

good point.

In Diablo 2, the reason why the guardians didn't stop Baal, the demon, is that a betrayer give Baal a relic which block the guardians' intervention and allow Baal to enter the worldstone chamber without any resistance.

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CommanderEX In reply to HowXu [2013-05-02 14:58:20 +0000 UTC]

But if guardians can not stop great evil from entering in place what they are guarding, why would they bother to fight heroes who try to help, it just waste heroes time, there is risk they can kill heroes, and even if Heroes will win, they will be to tired to enter and save the world, or even better, main villain will just sit and watch as guardians fight heroes, and then kill those who are still alive.

In the show Celestia and Luna are useless enough by not helping or failing, so I hate the idea that in here not only they not help but also they get in the way.

And do I need to mention that 3 powerful Alicorns vs 6 normal ponies is totally unfair, even 1 vs 6 may be to much.

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HowXu In reply to CommanderEX [2013-05-05 13:27:50 +0000 UTC]

Well, this comic is merely a parody of Diablo2, so I can't really discuss the points. I guess the game designers just want to make the plot more dramatic so they decided to let heroes fight guardians.

But you did raise an important issues that have been bothering me: Does the dramatic plots really that important? As I said, the game designers probably do this to make the plot more dramatic. By erasing the guardians' role of protecting the world, the burden would lie directly on our heroes' shoulder. Therefore it then is up to the heroes to save the world. The same thing happen to MLP as well. By erasing the princesses' role of protecting Equestria, the burden would lie directly on Twilight's shoulder. Such as in S3E1 and 2, the Crystal empire's problem could be more easily solved if all princesses could go to the empire together, yet Celestia turn down Luna's request and insist on letting Twilight and her friends go instead. In fact, the same thing happen to many other fandom as well. Things could have been better, yet it had to let the protagonists get the credits.

I remembered I once attend art-related class as an auditor. The professor said that the story of the true masterpiece is seldom dramatic. For example, the story of the classic fiction "The Old Man and the Sea" is that an old man go for fishing and then return. That's all. This made me question the meaning of being dramatic. Does the dramatic plots really that important? Is there anything else that is even more crucial than the story? It doesn't means that being dramatic is bad, but there seems to be something else that is more significant. Something that is the true core of a story.

I don't know the answers yet, but I think that the story writer may need to think over these questions too. The audiences' eyes are sharp. If the story is flawed or empty, one cannot simply fools their audiences by beautiful words or dramatic plots.

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CommanderEX In reply to HowXu [2013-05-05 14:33:24 +0000 UTC]

Well, I am not really to focused about over dramatic part of the story, I rather focus on balance and plot holes.

For example, MLP show, mane 6 always do all dirty work while princesses, guards and background characters do nothing to help, as result mane 6 get all spotlight and princesses are used only as plot devices, but I personally would like for mane 6 to cooperate with others, after all Equestria is kingdom and every pony in Equestria should contribute in protecting it, not put all burden on 6 ponies who do not get any reward or get recognized anyway.

For example, I would rather have Celestia to assist mane 6 or at last protect them from Nightmare Moon so they could get to elements, and instead make Nightmare Moon more lethal and determined.
In original story, Nightmare Moon take out 3 guards in 3 seconds in direct battle, but when she find out that Twilight and group of 5 ponies are going to get elements what banished her for 1000 years ( if you got burned, you would be afraid even of small fire ), why Nightmare Moon not just enter library and take them out, why she waste time following mane 6, all her attacks are more like trying to scare them off, far less lethal then frontal assault, and in the end Nightmare Moon just stand in one place until elements charge for 2 minutes to hit her, why she not counterattack ?

Now lets add Celestia following mane 6, Nightmare Moon try to attack directly but Celestia interfere and try to buy mane 6 some time, Nightmare Moon set up small traps because she is to busy fighting Celestia to kill mane 6 directly, and in the end Celestia would try to hold Nightmare Moon in place for elements to be used on her, that way Nightmare Moon do not lose because of stupid mistakes, but in fair battle.

Now Discord, Discord is not lethal at all, it is part of his character, but in the end he started to be stupid for no reason, he see mane 6 with they original colours restored and yet ignore it until it is to late, why he even hide elements in library when he could teleport them into volcano, and it turn me to the fact that mane 6 did not had elements, so why they were send to find them, would not it make more sense if Celestia and Luna and guards help search for elements and in exchange make Discord less stupid in the end.

In fight again Chrysalis, Luna was forcefully removed and Celestia did not got any epic fight ( 15 second laser beam battle should always be in the end of epic battle, but it should NEVER be battle itself ), in this episode Chrysalis was acting stupid doing mistake after mistake, why not give guards some screen time to fight changelings, why not give Celestia better fight so while she keep Chrysalis busy, mane 6 would try to get to elements ( Chrysalis just let mane 6 run away, and after they are captured, she just send her guards outside while she does not even watch her enemies plotting again her ), it would make more sense if Luna with her 2 night guards would enter and free mane 6, Shinning and Cadance while keeping Chrysalis busy, it would be more epic then just having Chrysalis to be stupid.

In episode with Crystal empire, mane 6 not even took elements with them, do this mean that elements would be ineffective again Sombra, but then why risk mane 6 in the first place if they can not use elements, is not this a risk of losing element bearers who can not expendable.


In my personal opinion, I do not like plot holes what are created as result of forcing heroes to do all dirty work while everyone around them are stupid or useless to make them look better, and I am in favour of heroes cooperating with good armies, background characters and good leaders, I know that it make heroes less cool and give them less spotlight, but it also show that everyone are willing to fight together for greater good, not just thrown it all on heroes and watch like they do not care.
A cartoon what I like for example is Generator Rex, in that cartoon main character is the only one who can heal mutated people and animals while he have incredible powers, he can fight again enemies far bigger then him, and yet he cooperate with good soldiers who are very effective and even saved main hero many times, he is part of war where everyone contribute something, and as result bad guys do not need to do stupid mistakes to lose, they lose in fair fight.

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HowXu In reply to CommanderEX [2013-05-07 17:50:18 +0000 UTC]

Yes! I completely agree with you!

I don't like plot holes either, and I despise the idea of deliberately making everyone stupid or useless to make the protagonists look better. I know supporting roles are not suppose to have more spot light than the protagonists, but it has nothing to do making bone heads. With skillful management, supporting roles could still shine even without stealing protagonist's screen time. Like a fan-made game, Eggman Hates Furries. In the game, your sidekick ,Tails, play a crucial role in story lines and defeating boss, therefore it would make you feel that he really is a irreplaceable ally. That's far better than the most official Sonic games in which Tails is totally useless character who do noting but following you. I believe it is plausible that with clever story design, writer could make both protagonists and supporting roles shines. If the the writer could only make the heroes look good by making the supporting roles look bad, then I believe they are simply not good enough to be a writer.

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CommanderEX In reply to HowXu [2013-05-07 18:13:25 +0000 UTC]

So we are in agreement, if you read MLP stories in fanfic.net, can you give me some links to stories what in your opinion are good, especially where mane 6 do not need to do all dirty work alone, princesses are not just useless plot devices where they actually do something and where those around heroes contribute something ?

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HowXu In reply to CommanderEX [2013-05-10 11:12:45 +0000 UTC]

I would love to. The only problem is that I seldom visit fanfic.net. Sorry about that. But if I found any story with that characteristics, I'll tell you no matter what the media is.

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HowXu In reply to CommanderEX [2013-05-02 04:59:53 +0000 UTC]

Actually, in Diablo 3, you really can summon the 3 ancestors in battle.

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CommanderEX In reply to HowXu [2013-05-02 14:59:54 +0000 UTC]

Good to know that those ancestors are not stupid enough to not help heroes save the world, if only Twilight would get ability to summon Celestia and Luna into battle without need to defeat them first, or at last Twilight should also be Alicorn just like in the show to at last give her a fighting chance.

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HowXu In reply to xuncu [2012-06-07 10:53:59 +0000 UTC]

Ah~ I know how it feel. And the worse of all is they don't allow me go back to town and buy supplies. I can't use my old strategy against Diablo and Mephisto which is slowly lower their HP by repeatly go to town and back to fight. D*** those ancient.

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HowXu In reply to jbrenham [2012-05-17 11:19:35 +0000 UTC]

Oh~I know that feeling very well. Just like the time After I defeat Hell's Baal in Diablo2 or slay Agent Frank in Fallout2. And although I didn't plan to do a D2 crossover anytime soon, I had came up with several good ideas that I'd like to work on. Yes, I have a new purpose to fulfill now!

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jbrenham In reply to HowXu [2012-05-21 20:52:37 +0000 UTC]

Sweet. Without purpose we would not exist.

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HowXu In reply to Colorfulpainter [2012-05-16 11:25:40 +0000 UTC]

Hmm~That means they should concentrate their fire power on Cadence before move on to Celestia and Luna.
Actually that's the same strategy when we play the game. we usually take down Madawc first who relatively easy to defeat before attack Korlic or Talic.

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HowXu In reply to fiskefyren [2012-05-15 07:37:48 +0000 UTC]

Oh, yes! After many years of waiting and anticipating, it finally release. I really want to buy one, especially the collector's edition
About the installer, hmm~~~ I heard that only those who participate in the BETA TEST could install the game before the release date. Maybe that's reason?

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HowXu In reply to Vulpimo [2012-05-15 07:46:32 +0000 UTC]

Don't worry. They can infinitely reborn in town due to game mechanism. XD (as long as they don't play the Hardcore mode.)

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Vulpimo In reply to HowXu [2012-05-15 12:28:36 +0000 UTC]

So infinite number against immortality... that's even more cruel
XDDDD

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HowXu In reply to Mordecai274 [2012-05-14 02:12:20 +0000 UTC]

Oh I remember I got killed on that summit so many times in Hell's level, but I still having fun. Ahh those are some good time.~

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Mordecai274 In reply to HowXu [2012-05-16 02:29:21 +0000 UTC]

Very good times. But, now, it is time for Diablo 3!!!

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HowXu In reply to Mordecai274 [2012-05-16 11:10:23 +0000 UTC]

Oh~I'm still waiting for the collector's edition. I try to preorder it but unfortunately they're all out of stock! Come on, Blizzard! we need more Diablo 3 collector's edition in Taiwan!

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Mordecai274 In reply to HowXu [2012-05-16 23:00:22 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I heard like all the Collector's Editions were pretty much all out of stock...I think. But I do hope they do get more in Tawain, and everywhere, but that might take a bit due to problems with Battle.net. Random question. Do you play online a lot?

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HowXu In reply to Mordecai274 [2012-05-17 11:05:21 +0000 UTC]

Not really, I mostly play solo.

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Mordecai274 In reply to HowXu [2012-05-18 02:51:41 +0000 UTC]

Do you plan on playing online?

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