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greenapplefreak In reply to CuriousCucumber [2015-11-19 19:23:54 +0000 UTC]

indeed! I mean he was already dangerous when he could throw big rocks at the bad guys... now he can throw fire?!

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CuriousCucumber In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-19 20:00:45 +0000 UTC]

Or throw TANTRUMS with fire! >8I

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greenapplefreak In reply to buslimpan [2015-11-19 18:54:10 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! If you’re interested in listening to my theories, you can check the comments and the debacle I have going with I think I made her loose like 40 minutes of her life, or at least 40 mins of sleep… I hope she didn’t mind…

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buslimpan In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-20 14:45:35 +0000 UTC]

I certainly hope so too, but I think she didn't minde because she replied xD
It's really interesting ideas you two had. A lot of fun reading!

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greenapplefreak In reply to buslimpan [2015-11-20 18:43:44 +0000 UTC]

yeahm she's a trooper!
;D

I too hope someone write this, othrwise I'm gonna keep constructing a AU with nowhere to pour my feelings!  

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buslimpan In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-12-08 15:06:46 +0000 UTC]

Sadly, I'm not a candidate to write this, but if you ever get hold of someone who does, I want to know too! Because I want to know more!

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greenapplefreak In reply to buslimpan [2015-12-08 21:32:05 +0000 UTC]

Me too! we're on the same boat!

thanks for the comment!

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greenapplefreak In reply to jemgirl [2015-11-19 03:23:26 +0000 UTC]

aww.. come on... I'm waiting for an important email, you can help me kill time by starting a lenghty discussion over the avatar...

What if Superboy did have the previous avatar's memories, only he discovers that in a moment of high stress and before that people (or just the JLA) actually think he's just a 4-elements-bender and a 'freaky science experiment'

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jemgirl In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-19 06:47:05 +0000 UTC]

AAHh!!!

You are messing up comic/anime world magic trying to make him the avatar. :hands in the air in outrage and the impossibility of it all:

The rules that guild the reincarnation of the avatar, his memories and abilities, can't be erased by cloning someone who wasn't even a past host.

So for your idea to even have a leg to stand on you would you need some kind of DNA from the last known host. Idealy, brain matter, for this to even have a snow ball chance in hell of being likely. But still!

acing, pacing, thinking, thinking:

Ok. In a world where things like cloning and tech live along bending and such abilities, we would have to make Conner older. As in he may have to have been around a bit longer then first thought, but still a teenager for your thing to work.

Somehow, trank dart, sleeping glass, girl with knock out lipstick, don't care how. They, the lab, Cadmus (I know I spelt it wrong), got their hands on the last Avatar, who was a male, or female, you can work that out.

They copied their memories. They took dozens of DNA samples. Right down to a prostate milking, for a male, or egg removal, if it was a female. All of this is done within about one or two days. Then they are dropped back into their lives, with a viable excuse around to explain how they lost that time and they move on with their lives.

Now it's up to you to decide how long it would have taken them to mix all those DNA's together. Human, Superman and Avatar. Was Conner the first to just live, never mind function or show any abilities? Does he have nightmares of gene therapy where they would tweak him as they tried to get him to access the bending alibies for different elements? Or was he somehow taught by masters that the lab would acquire to teach him when he was found to be doing bending in his sleep, but not on Q during tests?

But I still don't think he could be 'the' avatar. I think he could be in possession of the memories that the avatar had to give when he was captured for those two days. And his eyes may glow, but that could just signal that he's at a higher level at being able to use and control all four elements at the same time.

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greenapplefreak In reply to jemgirl [2015-11-19 18:52:47 +0000 UTC]

Ok,first off:  THANK YOU! You really helped me in that moment I was anxiously awaiting my email! (it’s a job application, which I passed btw; I still have like 10+ other loops to pass, but still, I am quite happy!)

And secondly: nice! Those are great arguments + explanation of how could ‘and avatar’ be engineered. You’d be in the other side of the debate I want to make:

Your initial point is to assume there’s a real avatar somewhere and Conner has a bit of his/her DNA and so can somehow channel some of that power.

Assuming there’s really a world where superheroes and benders merge together, I still think batman would be paranoid enough to not disclose Conner’s true origins to the world. So I’m working under the understanding that only a very little amount of people 8like just the YJ, the JLA and Luthor and Co) know Superboy can “bend 4 elements” and that’s how they treat him originally cause they really had no idea what the light/Luthor/Cadmus did.

(Of course, if the Avatar has been already discovered in this reality then sure, there would be no doubt Supperboy is the product of science mixing with the spiritual world, but if there was no avatar… then that allows me to create this controversy. LET’S STIR UP THINGS!)

The theories of Superboy’s powers could them go from the most scientific ones to the mystical ones, so you’d have different theories in that group:

One group might think “there’s no way this is the avatar” and he’s just a bender that can, through genetic modification, manage to bend 4 different elements, but he’s in no way related to the avatar, wherever he/she is, and they would defend this theory until a stronger argument for Conner’s “Avatarness” appears (like him connecting to the avatar state or channeling a past avatar)

Other group might thing “there’s more to Conner’s DNA than we thought” and imagine the reason Conner can bend 4 elements is because somehow Cadmus managed to trap the ‘real’ avatar (and do heinous things to him) and collect DNA samples that were infused in project Kr and thus even if Conner manages to “access the avatar state” they’d assume it’s because there’s a slim connection between Conner and “the real avatar” after all, only the Avatar can summon the 4 elements.

Then there’s a third group (probably the more theological one) that agree “sure, only the Avatar can summon the 4 elements” and “while Conner might be a clone/hybrid he’s still a living thing, and thus he has a soul that is completely separate from his DNA donors” and “that soul could be new or it could be an old soul… like the Avatar’s”

If I remember correctly, there’s no genetic connection between Aang and Roku, or between Roku and Kyoshi. The only connection that ties them together is that they share the same soul. Therefore the avatar could be anyone, even a clone.

So there you go, you now have three groups of people thinking “maybe this is just the next step of genetic engineering and the evolution of bending abilities” or “maybe this is a nefarious organization abusing not only Superman’s DNA but also the Avatar’s” or “maybe this is the avatar…being born in the most unlikely of individuals”

And you’d have good arguments for each side too! Like:

• The White Lotus (if they still exist) could not find a person who was hidden in a secret lab under a restricted research centre.

• …but then again, Superboy is part Kriptonian: he has no real connection to the planet or to the energies that govern it. He can’t be the Avatar.

• Just because he has Superman’s DNA does not give Superboy an identical copy of Superman, therefore even if he had the “real avatar’s” DNA mixed in, that would not make Superboy the avatar: there can only be one after all.

• Plus, Superboy is the ultimate result of project Kr; there are probably a bunch of failed genomorphs with the Superman+Avatar+human DNA that never consolidated into a human form; does that make them avatars too? No of course not!

• Buuutt! There can only be one avatar. If Conner can bend 4 elements, if he can access the avatar state, then there’s no argument: he is the avatar.

• But! Assuming “Superboy is the avatar” then the previous avatar died recently (right at the moment of birth of Superboy…so technically, the White Lotus are looking for a four month old baby in July 4th.

• …but does that mean “the moment of birth” or “the moment of conception”? Either way that’s an ambiguous concept when we talk about Conner. Was he ‘born’ on July 4th or 16 weeks before? An believer of bending would use this as a point of contention.

You see why I think the idea of “Superboy being the Avatar” is so interesting?

And then of course you have the regular population; unless another person who can bend  4 elements is found, the public would assume Conner is the avatar if they see him bending more than one element…which probably means Batman made Conner swore up and down not to use his bending abilities outside Mount Justice.

…

..

.

...that was a long reply again…

I’m sorry, I don’t do this to you on purpose, please don’t hate me! … I just had too much to write… sorry… please go back to your life and enjoy it; take a relaxing cup of tea, have a nap, run far away from this crazy fan…

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jemgirl In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-20 00:31:18 +0000 UTC]

First off I don't hate you.

Second, I personally think that to have a spirit reincarnate itself, it would have to happen at conception not at birth, but there are many old theories that say a person doesn't get a soul until it draws it first breath. That I think is where the Avatar thing comes in. Due to those two arguments alone, would be why this experiment was undertaken in the first place. Do you have soul if you weren't conceived and born in the traditional sense?

No one ever presented the idea that the past Avatars were related. The Avatar spirit or force moved from air bender, to earth bender, to fire bender to water bender, not in that order, in a cycle that lasted centuries. That was the only pattern that connected them.

Possibly because Connor had bender DNA and the last Avatar's to boot, he would already have a connection to the spirit world and it may look like he's in the Avatar state, but just accessing the spirit world. What really makes it the Avatar state is his ability to communicate and channel his past lives at one time.

So why wouldn't Conner be in possession of the Avatar state? He wasn't born to any of the bending tribes. He has a soul because he is self aware, but he wasn't born/created from a pair of air, wind, earth, or fire benders.

Ok, something just worked itself out in my head.

The Avatar spirit is bestowed on a child who is being born in the next bending order, at the time the current Avatar dies. Conner can not be 'the' Avatar. He's just cable of bending all four elements and stolen access to the spirit world.

Batman isn't happy with anyone he doesn't fully understand. The people who do bend, don't fully understand it. How could he?

So according to me the real Avatar is out there somewhere. This gives you a point of contention. If they learn of Connor in some public way, when they have be told they were the Avatar and being trained as the Avatar, they may question if they really are. This could lead to a pilgrimage to find Conner and find out what is going on.

Considering Conner is young and learning how to do just about everything and that the Avatar state runs mostly on emotion and a strong sense of wanting to do what is right, it's a given his eyes would glow and he would bend when fighting someone and if he's anywhere near a population, you can say hello to all the cameras recording him fight.

Now we have two 'Avatars' in Mount Justice. The one that just got there and asking questions will have to be told about Connor. But what happens now? Do they do go into a connected Avatar state to sort things out in the spirit world? Is Conner accepted? Rejected and officially cut off from the spirit world?

Does 'the' Avatar stick around and teach him what he has left to learn about using his bending? How far did Connor get before he was found? How old is 'the' Avatar? Did they complete their training themselves? Do they teach each other? Do they learn together? Or is the 'the' Avatar older and teaches Conner like I first said?

I'm not touching the rest of what you said, because I think I did say my view on those topics before, but if I missed something, let me know.

For everyone looking for a romance, bro or other wise, this would be were it would start. Is 'the' avatar male or female? How old are they? Personalty wise can they get along? Can they be friends never mind lovers?

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greenapplefreak In reply to jemgirl [2015-11-20 05:13:26 +0000 UTC]

I love the fact that you enable my derangement!

Personally, I think we acquire a soul the moment we are conceived...but I don't think the show was clear on it... Was the next avatar born when the previous one died or was he conceived at that moment?

Oh! It would be an epic bromance! Definitely!!

And yeah, Batman would certainly be the paranoid, not trusting one of the lot... Makes you wonder: maybe with Batman in charge no one will ever find out Conner's powers..

I had another point to mention but I think I forgot...oh well, it will eventually come back ...

Oh dear this has become such an intriguing plot... I hope someone fill that prompt at YJ!

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jemgirl In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-20 05:54:05 +0000 UTC]

Yes. Nice can of worms we opened up.

As for Batman keeping it under wraps, I know he would try until he needed him to use those powers. But like I said, I think they will be triggered and people will find out that way.

You saw bromance, but I'm still holding out for a romance. Dispite the fact that 'the' Avatar could be a girl this time around, I've been looking for a good yaoi lately so my head is facing that direction at the moment.

Intresting side note, alot of people, from my side of fence, have been pairing up Conner with Robin.  I knew about the pairing, without understanding it, before I saw YJ.

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greenapplefreak In reply to jemgirl [2015-11-20 06:03:51 +0000 UTC]

I dunno, having proposed three theories, I think I will stick with option C, so I would not suffer pairing Conner with another avatar.

...pairing him with another member of YJ though... That sounds more interesting!!

I actually love the idea of Robin xConner but I also like to see rare pairings, cause, you know, I have this tendency towards the improbable what if's!

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jemgirl In reply to greenapplefreak [2015-11-20 07:58:43 +0000 UTC]

That said, why pass up AxA? What suffering?

I liked him with Miss Martian. His actual girl friend in the show. At least for the first sesason.

Who else could you pair him with? Granted, he could be with anyone since he doesn't have Superman's problem, but I can't really see him with anyone else.

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greenapplefreak In reply to jemgirl [2015-11-20 18:46:10 +0000 UTC]

cause everytime I come up with a pairing, I end up with a new OTP and a new Ship  and then that eventually leads to me sufering becuase my OTP suffer.

yeah, Miss martian is cool, i liked her too!...in the first season... ¬¬;

well, I could go sidelining canon and pair him with Robin, or Wonder Girl (Season 2) but I could go slashy and set him up with Red Arrow, or Wally West...

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