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Femmes-Fatales — The Avengers - The Kree-Skrull War Era

#1960s #1970s #60s #70s #antman #avengers #blackpanther #captainamerica #comics #goliath #hankpym #hawkeye #ironman #marvel #marvelcomics #marveluniverse #quicksilver #scarletwitch #silverage #steverogers #thor #tonystark #vision #wandamaximoff #wasp #yellowjacket #clintbarton #janetvandyne
Published: 2015-12-22 22:34:15 +0000 UTC; Views: 9777; Favourites: 124; Downloads: 28
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Description Part three of my Avengers line-up series.

This piece roughly covers The Avengers #51-109. While the roster of the team fluctuated during this chunk of issues, it can be categorized as an era due to the bulk of these comics being written by Roy Thomas. At its largest, the roster consisted of Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, the Vision, Black Panther, Wasp, Hank Pym (first as Goliath, then as Yellowjacket and finally as Ant-Man), Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Clint Barton (as Hawkeye, then Goliath, then Hawkeye again). The founding members largely rotated in and out of the team, which meant that the nucleus ended up being Black Panther and Vision.

Black Panther was inducted onto the team in The Avengers #52, when he helped the team combat the Grim Reaper. The Wakandan King had previously adventured with the Fantastic Four, but had taken up residence in the United States since then. With his presence on the team, Roy Thomas took a more socially conscious approach to storytelling. He became particularly interested in tackling racism in the United States during the 1960s, as well as covering the failing education system for African-Americans at that time. In fact, Black Panther adopted a pseudonym and worked as a teacher for a time. Thomas debuted Black Panther's nemesis Man-Ape during this run and also utilized Klaw as one of the hero's signature villains.

In The Avengers #57-58, the Vision was introduced. He made his debut as an android built by Ultron with the intention of using him to destroy the Avengers. Despite Ultron's insidious intent, the Vision went against his master's wishes and ended up fighting alongside the very people he was sent to destroy. As one of the most well-written and complex characters of this era, writer Thomas spent a lot of time exploring the melancholy of being so human-like without having the necessary parts. It really begged the question of what it truly means to be human. Of course, Thomas also introduced one of the oddest and most controversial ships - that of the Vision and Scarlet Witch. Their attraction became evident during The Kree-Skrull War storyline (more on that later). The simmering chemistry between them heated up in the issues that followed this event, eventually leading to their professions of love for one another. 

Another notable two-parter during this time was The Avengers #59-60, which featured the debut of the anti-hero Yellowjacket. This gruff vigilante made his first appearance claiming that he had killed Hank Pym and demanded to be inducted into the Avengers. He was aggressive and abrasive, but despite this the Wasp agreed to marry him. After a spectacular wedding featuring just about every hero in the Marvel Universe as wedding guests (and some villainous wedding crashers), it was revealed that Yellowjacket was in fact Hank Pym. When Jan had kissed Yellowjacket prior to their engagement, she knew instantly that it was Hank. As it turns out, Hank had a bit of a mental break. He realized that times were "better" prior to him being the colossal Giant-Man/Goliath and that the particles he'd been using to grow had affected him deeply, so he constructed the Yellowjacket persona to bring the good times back.

A development worth mentioning during this era was that Clint Barton went from being Hawkeye to Goliath. When his one-time lover Black Widow was captured during a mission for S.H.I.E.L.D., a powerless Clint desperately takes Hank's Pym Particles in order to rescue her under the new identity of Goliath. Clint would become more confident under this new role, enjoying very much that he went from the powerless archer to one of the team's most powerful heroes. During the aftermath of The Kree-Skrull War, Clint returned to being Hawkeye. He pursued Scarlet Witch relentlessly and aggressively at this time. He made several passes at her before eventually forcing himself on her. An enraged Wanda set him straight by telling him that she doesn't love him and that she loved the Vision. The idea that Wanda would love an android without human parts or a soul disgusted him (and bruised his ego) to the point where Clint abruptly left the Avengers. He went out west, where he attempted to rekindle his romance with Black Widow. However, since she was dating Daredevil at that time, things didn't work out in his favour. He skulked off with his tail between his legs, further cementing his general distaste for the Avengers and Daredevil.

The Avengers fought many foes during this era. Of course, there were the ol' standbys Ultron and Kang. They featured prominently. However, Thomas also focused heavily on some rather intriguing villains. Notably, there was the crime syndicate known as Zodiac. This twelve person organization featured criminals dressed up as each of the twelve signs within the zodiac and were financed by the crooked Cornelius Van Lunt. There was also the Squadron Sinister, who were villainous analogues of DC Comics' Justice League of America. 

As referenced a few times in this description, this era was largely defined by the epic event known as The Kree-Skrull War. It was a massive event that spanned the course of nine issues, going from The Avengers #89-97. It was really one of the first of its kind, which meant it essentially became the blueprint for many of Marvel's larger scale stories that would occur in the decades that followed. In this nine parter, the Kree and Skrull races declare war on one another (duh), with Earth becoming their ultimate prize. The likes of the Inhumans and the Fantastic Four made appearances, as well as Captain Marvel, Ronan and S.H.I.E.L.D. One of the more memorable elements of this saga featured Thomas alluding to McCarthyism when he introduced the "Alien Activities Commission," which was meant to investigate the illegal activities of aliens on Earth at this time. Sympathizers with aliens, such as the Avengers, were denounced as anti-American.

For this piece, I decided to do two rosters that reflect the beginning and ending of this era. The top line-up roughly covers issues #52-74, while the bottom one roughly covers #75-109. As some of you will notice from previous pieces in this series, some of these drawings a repeats. The new guys/costumes are Vision, Iron Man, Yellowjacket, Goliath, Wasp, Black Panther and Scarlet Witch. It's also worth mentioning Quicksilver got a palette swap. The toughest of them all to draw was the Wasp. Her primary outfit from this era was a gold sequinned tunic worn over a red full-body suit. I really wanted to try my hands at trying to do sparkly sequins and I hope I was able to pull off that effect. Even still, I actually think Scarlet Witch and Iron Man look the best.

As always, I absolutely love hearing from you guys. Please feel free to leave a thoughtful comment below with feedback on the art and your thoughts on this particular era below.

Thanks! Enjoy!
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Comments: 51

Femmes-Fatales In reply to ??? [2016-01-13 21:43:45 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the comment! I appreciate the kind words towards the art. I'm happy to see you think I did a good job with them.

Flipping the Vision was meant for balance purposes actually. Notice how he's next to Wanda? It would have looked off if I didn't flip him, otherwise I'd have had to place him further from her. I actually put a lot of thought into placement.

Yeah, Pietro's a jerk. We all know that though. As I've observed before, he and Wanda are quite a lot like Northstar and Aurora. It makes me want to see the four of them interact, especially given Pietro's implied bisexuality.

I think it's safe to say Wasp goes through more costume changes than her hubby. True blue X-Men fans will also be reminded of how Kitty cycled through three codenames and no less than six or seven costume changes between her debut and 1986. So, Hank's not the only one.

Ask and ye shall receive, Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch's confrontation: goodcomics.comicbookresources.…

You know who else could outrun Captain America? Quicksilver, Northstar, Aurora, the Flash, Kid Flash, Jesse Quick, Superman, Supergirl, Power Girl and Wonder Woman.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-13 22:05:52 +0000 UTC]

Ah. That makes sense. And thanks for linking me the page. Yes.

And look those characters aside, seeing Black Panther is simply gold. Actually, his solo film finally scored a director.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2016-01-13 22:41:38 +0000 UTC]

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-13 22:42:55 +0000 UTC]

Just in case you haven't heard who, it's Ryan Coogler. He directed Fruitvale Station and Creed. I need to see Creed but I loved Fruitvale Station. It's a powerful movie and Marvel scored him big time.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2016-01-14 17:02:13 +0000 UTC]

Just means they finally found someone they can push around, given what we know of who has turned down working for them and why.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-14 19:03:22 +0000 UTC]

Not denying the MCU is committee based but at the same time, his hiring is a big deal. Perhaps he'll spread more of his influence. Trust me, he's great.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2016-01-14 19:09:15 +0000 UTC]

Oh, by the way, you should TOTALLY read Harley Quinn's current solo series. I finished the first trade and was thoroughly impressed. It's fresh, funny, cute, sexy, madness, mayhem, zany and quirky. I also obviously appreciate all of the Harley and Ivy stuff. You should totally fast track it to the top of your list. Check out scans or something of it on Comixology. You will not be disappointed. Trust me.

I'll be writing a review for it so I'll link you to it.

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DanFalcon [2015-12-29 06:51:44 +0000 UTC]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkbPcn…

Bringing this back

Quicksilver - The blue looks better than the green, at least in my opinion.

Scarlet Witch - Hooray Auburn! It was really at this point that her look became more defined for the next couple of decades (Force Works aside).

Goliath - Barton was an interesting pick for this role. I personally thought it was quite interesting for him.

Pym - His Yellowjacket costume is my personal favourite.

Wasp - Went from black and red to gold and red. Both look good on her though.

Iron Man - Here he was starting to look more like the hero we all know today. This look was pretty damn iconic for him too. Correct me if I;m wrong but I believe he had this particular armour for the Demon in a Bottle storyline, which is one of my personal favourite story lines actually.

Captain America - About the same. Love that smile by the way. It just suits him so well.

Vision - He looks fantastic and always has. Red, Green, and yellow is such an odd colour combo in this type of design but it works so well for him. And I always liked the concept of Vision. A robot who has the feelings and emotions of a man. It has so many possibilities for stories.

Thor - Completely the same.

Black Panther -  A SEVERELY under rated character here. He is probably my favourite Avenger for a great deal many reasons. He is just such an all around interesting and accomplished character, and yet such a badass at the same time. And his costume is the perfect combination of simple yet practical and it really works.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2015-12-31 19:15:04 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the comment!

I'm with you on Quicksilver. I like the blue better.

Isn't it funny how Scarlet Witch pretty much wore the same exact costume for basically three decades before finally changing her look? Mind you, she would occasionally switch things up by wearing - gasp - heels or - bigger gasp - opera length gloves. It mostly depended on the artist.

Yes, the look you see here is what armour Iron Man would have been wearing at the time of the Demon in a Bottle storyline. If I'm not mistaken, I believe he wore this armour until the 1980s. Then he started wearing different variations. Obviously, Rhodes took over for him during that time as well.

Black Panther is a character I want to like, but Marvel likes to do things with him that don't always make him likeable. Mostly this has to do with more modern takes on him, as I feel he was actually one of the more likeable Avengers during the late Silver Age and well into the Bronze Age. Of course, I'm not as familiar with him as I could be. Conversely, I've found it interesting how much more I've come to appreciate the Vision. I know he has a plethora of fans, but in his own way he's underrated in comparison to Hawkeye (blech) or the Avengers' Trinity.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-31 23:07:13 +0000 UTC]

Black Panther has been really unlikable at times (*cough* AvX *cough*). Which is a real shame because he can definitely be really awesome, especially when he kicked Iron Man's ass during a tie in to Civil War. And Tony had a special suit designed specifically to fight T'Challa, and T'Challa still kicked his ass. But I will agree, the late silver age into the bronze age definitely is his better era in terms of likability.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2015-12-31 23:23:47 +0000 UTC]

Like I said though, I'm not as familiar with him as I could be. The library tragically doesn't have a lot of Black Panther trades and what I've bought (always at discounted prices, since I never know if I'll like them) has been limited. I've read the arc where he marries Storm, as well as one of the beginning arcs for one of his various series. The thing I'd like emphasized about him is his intelligence and his torn loyalties. I see him as someone with a lot of heart and who really upholds honour and duty. That's why it's odd that he kicked Storm to the curb like he did. If anyone would have initiated their break-up, it should have and would have been her. I never really thought that she really considered him her soulmate especially when she had much better chemistry with Forge, Bishop and Wolverine. But that's just me.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-01 07:42:36 +0000 UTC]

To be honest I loved the chemistry she had with Wolverine. When they got it right they really got it right.

And to anyone who doesn;t believe it, just look to her reaction after he died. She had to leave orbit to grieve, lest her emotions destroy the planet. On that note, how the hell is she not Omega Level?!

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-02 18:00:47 +0000 UTC]

Which largely meant that Claremont was writing the two. Haha! He was the one who always seemed to push them having a thing together more than any other writer, especially since others tended to focus more on Wolverine's romantic tension with Jean Grey.

Who? Storm? Storm is considered Omega Level. In general, all twelve of the mutants who were part of Apocalypse's Twelve are considered Omega. For some reason, Psylocke and Emma Frost were alternately given that distinction. The latter I understand, since in some material Professor Xavier indicates that he's actually kind of afraid of her.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-02 20:07:52 +0000 UTC]

It's funny because whenever I look up omega level mutants, Storm is referenced but never given that status. I mean, this is a status that Magneto, Iceman, and Elixir are a part of so why not her? On the whole Omega level has gone sketchy lately. I think Psylocke is there because a) Her telepathic abilities are more refined than Emma's (which does not mean more powerful mind you) and b) Didn;t she have a massive dominion over the astral plane at one point? Or am I thinking of something else?

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-02 20:51:09 +0000 UTC]

It's debatable whether Psylocke has more refined telepathic abilities than Emma. During Matt Fraction's run, it's indicated that she's nowhere near as skilled as Emma. Either way, I don't really think Emma or Betsy should be given that distinction. Like I said, I'd like the term to be given solely to a small, set number of mutants. Preferably... Professor Xavier, Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Mystique, Magneto, Wolverine, Cyclops, Iceman, Jean Grey, Polaris, Storm, and Scarlet Witch (but she doesn't count anymore I guess...). Maybe Magik and Bishop as well.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-03 00:04:48 +0000 UTC]

I am definitely in the same mindset when it comes to Omega levels being few and far between but I don;t think any list is complete without Mad Jim Jaspers or Franklin Richards. I always believed that Omega should be classified by a mutant who's power can affect the world as a whole. I don't see how someone like Wolverine can be considered Omega, except for maybe his nigh indestructibility. 

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-03 02:41:44 +0000 UTC]

Mad Jim Jaspers?

Jamie Braddock and Legion are also worth mentioning, same with Proteus.

For me, I see Omega as being the pinnacle of an ability or trait plus how invincible a mutant is in their given area. But I guess you're right, Wolverine doesn't quite fit the bill.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-03 03:53:20 +0000 UTC]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBjlvc… <- Mad Jim Jaspers. He was a Captain Britain villain.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-04 21:46:18 +0000 UTC]

Hm. Random.

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-05 00:08:45 +0000 UTC]

Definitely. At least he's better than Mathew f*cking Malloy, who was  mutant created expressly to make Xavier seem like a villain during the reading of his will, and to make Cyclops even worse. Damn does Cyclops ever deserve a break.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-08 19:38:11 +0000 UTC]

I haven't come across him yet. I see he's part of Bendis' UXM. Of Bendis' two titles, I've much preferred ANXM than UXM. I felt the latter dragged on and lacked a sense of importance. There's also the fact that Bendis screwed Dazzler over in a way that I'm none too happy with him for. Of course, I lamented all of this in my reviews thus far of the trades. In case you're curious...

UXM Vol 1 - divas-femmes-fatales.blogspot.…
UXM Vol 2 - divas-femmes-fatales.blogspot.…
UXM Vol 3 - divas-femmes-fatales.blogspot.…

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DanFalcon In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2016-01-08 22:24:27 +0000 UTC]

I will definitely check out those reviews of yours. 

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to DanFalcon [2016-01-08 23:22:11 +0000 UTC]

Fabulous!

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Movie-Man [2015-12-28 04:22:08 +0000 UTC]

Very good as usual, I won't have to say as much as I can't remember what I said last time about the bottom beyond my personal favorites (you remember which ones). I will say I did read plenty of pages of a particular issue from this era, the Lady Liberators. I liked that the ending didn't have the women let go of the idea of an all-women team since the motivations despite being a lie created by Enchantress, is not that far off since obviously sexism is still a thing. So yeah, Enchantress lied but that proves what? Doesn't mean pursuing women's rights and an all-women team isn't worth it. In fact, A-Force is an all-women Avengers team that's getting an ongoing after its success as a Secret Wars title. Awesome!

And very good recreations of this era of Avengers as I know you do. I admit I do like some of the subtle differences.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 18:42:18 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the comment!

As for your favourites, I actually don't. You probably started discussing which characters were your favourite around the time that I deleted the piece to make room for the rebooted series. Who were they again?

The Avengers #83 was very clumsily written. The idea was good - let's take a bunch of great heroines and have them team-up for an issue. Sadly, the execution was all wrong and it seemed more like an attempt to sneer at the women's liberation movement by emphasizing the Feminazi stereotype that has become a go-to detractive term men (and many women) use to describe extremists. It was quite odd to see the women turning against the men, if only because Hawkeye (then Goliath) was really the only one out of the Avengers who made a habit of being the chauvinist that they claimed the men to be. If you haven't read it, I'd recommend checking out New Avengers Annual #3. It handles the all-female Avengers team-up much more effectively without all of the unfortunate sexist trappings of The Avengers #83. I do commend writer Roy Thomas for at least attempting to tackle the growing feminist movement within the 1970s, which was gaining significant momentum. It went along with his general desire to explore more societal issues during this era. I mean, if you consider yourself a SJW then his entire run would leave you feeling like a kid in a candy store. However, I do feel he handled the subject of racism better than he handled the subject of sexism.

So, what are the subtle differences you're referring to? I'm certainly curious for some elaboration.

The women of the Avengers wouldn't fully become the great heroines we know them to be until the era that follows this one... so stay tuned for that!

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 19:06:24 +0000 UTC]

By the way, I realized what New Avengers Annual #3 also has when I researched a particular character. One other reason for me to read it? Two words, Jessica Jones.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 19:42:15 +0000 UTC]

Actually, Jessica appears frequently in New Avengers. She makes 25 appearances in the first volume, while in the second volume she plays a larger role since Luke Cage takes over leadership of the team. Issue #8 would be of interest to you from the second volume.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 20:28:57 +0000 UTC]

Oh yeah, I knew that but still; cool to know.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 20:45:31 +0000 UTC]

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 19:02:27 +0000 UTC]

Well this time I'll go from both drawings. My favorites are Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Black Panther, Vision, Iron Man, Wasp and Thor.

And well, I can recognize the problems with Avengers #83 whether it'd be your or any of my other friends but I can't deny Roy Thomas had his heart in the right place. Again, the ending has me believing he was all for the feminist movement or still is but yeah. But I'll keep an eye out on his run and New Avengers Annual #3. Thank you.

Subtle differences include Goliath's costume colors changing as well as the placement of Hank Pym and Wasp in terms of size and costume. And the fact that you flipped Vision's pose. AndI'll be looking forward to what you hinted.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 20:00:34 +0000 UTC]

So, basically everyone except Hank, Clint and Pietro?

The inference I believe Thomas was making was that the belief that any sex is superior to another is detrimental. For instance, the feminist movement is doomed to fail if its supporters take an aggressive stance in which they believe women are superior to men and that all men are evil. When we see the female Avengers buying into this belief, we see them become extremely unlikeable individuals and they eventually fail in their mission to destroy their male teammates. Still, it all reverts to the status quo by the end of it. The problem I have is that Thomas seems a little disingenuous. He has a lot of great women appear during his run, but he continues to adhere to there only ever being one female on the team at a time. This would change by the time Steve Englehart took over writing duties, with Thomas ascending to the role of editor. Englehart swiftly introduced Mantis and was really one of the first writers at Marvel to finally have more than one female on the team at a time. It was always confusing how they would load the team up with men and then switch out Wanda and Jan for one another.

You know who changed the game on the token female bit? Robert Kanigher. If I'm not mistaken, he was one of the first writers to have two females on the same superhero team at one time when he introduced Lilith Clay into the Teen Titans in 1970. That shouldn't be a surprise though considering his body of work - him being a veteran Wonder Woman writer and then later being responsible for transforming Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane from a Cold War era relic to a more socially conscious book. And yes, he wrote the most infamous Lois Lane issue of all time... #106. Oh comics!

After Lilith joined the Titans, during which time another writer took over for Kanigher, all the other superhero teams across the Big Two started to have two female members. The Avengers had Scarlet Witch and Mantis, while the Justice League had Black Canary and Wonder Woman (not counting the various times Earth-Two Wonder Woman teamed up with them, of course - since the primary Wonder Woman was powerless at that time). If I'm not mistaken, it took the X-Men and the Fantastic Four a little longer. While Crystal had been a member of the FF, she was a replacement for Sue. They wouldn't have two female members on the team at the same time until She-Hulk served as the Thing's replacement. With the X-Men, they did have Polaris hanging around but I don't think she ever officially joined the team. She and Havok wanted a normal life, if I remember correctly. It wasn't until Jean became the Phoenix, well the Jean clone, that they had two female members. Then the rest is history. I don't think we've really seen an official X-Men line-up with only one female member since then!

Anyway, sorry for the huge reply. It was just fun to go through that bit of history I guess. I hope you don't mind.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 20:30:55 +0000 UTC]

Nah, I don't mind. I live for these history lessons regarding these subjects.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 20:50:12 +0000 UTC]

That's good to hear.

Still, you didn't answer the question I posed to you regarding the characters you like/dislike. To elaborate now, I was curious to know what it was about the ones you left out that you dislike, while what it is about the ones you included that you love enough to refer to as your favourites.

I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on the token female trend and how and why it was broken by Lilith Clay in 1970. She's an interesting figure, one I think doesn't quite get the credit she deserves considering the pivotal point in which she was introduced. In fact, the '70s era Titans in general don't quite get the recognition they so do deserve. After all, this was the era and team that gave us the first ever Black superheroine and created a two-part organization that featured a whopping five female members (Wonder Girl, Bumblebee, Harlequin, Bat-Girl and the aforementioned Lilith). Since you're a big fan of female characters, any thoughts there?

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 21:14:47 +0000 UTC]

It's not that I dislike Clint, Pietro and Hank. I like them too. Just that simple enough; the ones I mentioned as my personal favorites I grow more attached to and find more interesting especially seeing how much they changed over the years in comparison to their past incarnations. Like I know James Robinson has been doing interesting with Scarlet Witch for example.

And undoubtedly Lilith Clay is very important in that area now so sad to see she's not recognized apparently.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 21:25:20 +0000 UTC]

Care to elaborate? I'm always absolutely fascinated by hearing people discuss intelligently what it is about specific characters that they are drawn to beyond generic statements regarding nostalgia or attachment due to adaptations. To be honest, I'm drawing a big question mark as to why it is that you like those characters over others. It does them no justice, or those who have written them over the years, to generically state that you find them interesting. Period. The why is still unanswered.

This is of special interest to me, when people are specific, given the fact that I do a lot of redesigns and head canon work. I know a few of my watchers have been clamouring for me to give the Marvel Universe the same treatment I've given the DC Universe so far, so when people are verbose and specific about the characters they feel passionately about it helps to give me direction with them. After all, the last thing I ever want is to reinvent a character and completely leave out what it is that people are drawn to them for.

I don't know if it's of interest for you to see me do a Marvel version of my DCU head canon, but if it is, I'd certainly be all ears to hear you go into depth about the characters (present here). That is, if you have the time and motivation of course.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 22:02:37 +0000 UTC]

I am myself. Just that I always have trouble explaining why like struggling to find the right words, something I need to work on and it doesn't help that I tend to feel insecure whether I'm considered intellectual or not. Like I'll say this, Steve Rogers/Captain America. I like that he is a man literally of out of his own time and plenty of times his views are kind of in conflict with everyone else's in a way no matter the decade (since given how much time has passed, it's always interesting to see him interact in modern day scenarios). Characters like Scarlet Witch and Black Panther, basically a lot of these characters are in a team with various different viewpoints and personalities that it's fun for me to see how they interact with one another.

And yes, I would like to see your Marvel headcanon.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 22:23:08 +0000 UTC]

You definitely shouldn't feel insecure whether you're considered intellectual or not. Why? Because how others define you isn't important. It's how you define yourself. Beyond that, you're talking to someone who posts artwork and receives comments on a regular basis. For those who leave comments that exceed one word, that already shows that they're both considerate and thoughtful. Then there are those who are patient enough to put up with my inane questions and who carry on conversations. As far as I'm concerned, someone who puts up with my nonsense and who bothers to converse with me deserve medals. Obviously since I can't give those out, I have to settle for showing my gratitude through contests and shout-outs.

Now, your assessment there of Captain America is exactly what I was looking for! It gives insight and direction. His conflicting viewpoints, particularly, due to him being time-displaced is a crucial aspect to his character when he's looked at from a standpoint of being new to a head canon or universe in general.

It's interesting that you lumped Scarlet Witch and Black Panther together there suggesting that they offer different viewpoints. Can you guess why I'd think that interesting? Both of them served a very specific function during the era of which I've covered in this drawing.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 22:35:17 +0000 UTC]

That's nice. Too true.

And indeed yes. I mean Black Panther has demonstrated a lot of feats that demonstrate why he shouldn't be underestimated. King of his own country that's very technologically advanced, can put up a good fight even against certain members of The Avengers like Captain America (in fact so far, the next Captain America movie is already getting that down right). He is in a way kind of a subversion of Batman since he is one of authority as opposed to Bruce Wayne just being a billionaire who happens to be vigilante.

Scarlet Witch, well it says something how much she developed over the years from being gung-ho with Magnet to being invited to join a superhero team to benefit others. Having a romance with an android, conceiving children but, well you know the rest and YMMV whether that's misstep or not. And I get why, which is I imagine is the motivation for James Robinson to write Scarlet Witch to give her agency of sorts and the approach to paganism I find a lot fascinating.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 22:57:16 +0000 UTC]

That wasn't quite where I was going with them. It had to do with the fact that Roy Thomas used both characters to deal with social issues of that time. In particular, racism within America with Black Panther and the hatred towards mutants with Scarlet Witch. In fact, when she and the Vision became an item there were riots about it. In a way, it mimicked either interracial relationships or homosexual relationships. Presumably, it was meant to be a reference to the former since the latter would have still been far too taboo in the early-1970s to even reference.

Scarlet Witch's induction into the dark arts manifested much earlier. It was one of the writers I've been referencing rather profusely that brought Agatha Harkness into the Avengers book and had her become Scarlet Witch's mentor. I'll deal with that more on my next Avengers piece.

Also, gung-ho with Magnet to? I got a good chuckle out of that one for a couple of reasons. Beyond the typo for Magneto there (auto correct?), there's the notion that Scarlet Witch was willingly complicit in following Magneto's orders and was actually enthusiastic about his endeavours. That couldn't be further from the truth. Have you had a chance to read her early appearances? The X-Men ones? Both she and Quicksilver are, in essence, indentured servants to Magneto after he saved them from an angry mob. Neither desires to do evil and are coerced into doing it out of a twisted sense of owing Magneto for their lives.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 23:04:20 +0000 UTC]

Don't know how that typo happened. And well, I interpret that part of Pietro and Wanda as being that since he did save them. That aside, the analogies are interesting in that area. Though see what I mean when I said I tend to insecure about missing stuff like that? 

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 23:10:22 +0000 UTC]

You kidding me? I miss stuff all the time! Take this piece. I mistakenly referred to the Living Laser as Jan's chauffeur until someone corrected me to let me know it was Whirlwind who was Jan's chauffeur. And I actually read all those issues, so I should have known better. Ay caramba!

Like I said though, Wanda and Pietro were never "gung-ho" about Magneto. Well, Wanda wasn't. That word means that she would have been enthusiastic and happy to be part of the Brotherhood. She was not. Quicksilver was a little bit of a different story. I didn't really go into depth about it on this piece or the previous one, but he left the Avengers to re-join Magneto because he'd felt betrayed by the Avengers and felt that humans could never accept mutants. I'm not sure if I'll touch on it in the next piece, but did you know Pietro condemned Wanda's relationship to the Vision? Yep yep! When he found out, he was enraged and told her he would not support such a relationship. Wanda was perplexed, especially given the fact that Pietro had experienced discrimination as a mutant. Of course, Wanda eventually gave him a piece of her mind. (Which was coordinated by Pietro's soon-to-be-bride Crystal, of all people)

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 23:13:49 +0000 UTC]

You did?

And yeah, Pietro tends to have major conflicts one way or the other way like the Vision and Wanda ordeal or rejoining Magneto.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-28 23:21:43 +0000 UTC]

I did. Luckily, I fixed it. Ah wait, it was actually the one previous to this one. See, more mistakes!

Pietro is a lot like the man who used to be his father (shakes fist at Marvel for the unnecessary retcon). They have a very similar temperament and both exhibit this "my way or the highway" kind of attitude. Wanda is similarly feisty, but only under certain circumstances. She's typically depicted as fairly evenly tempered, but not when it comes to her love life. You'll learn more about that in the next piece (I keep saying that!). I do hope you enjoy the descriptions I've written though. I know you haven't really had access or the opportunity to read many of these issues, so I hope my descriptions help to fill in some blanks you may have.

Oh - and by the way - I opened up my contest to include Marvel pieces. I know you have no motivation to comment on DC stuff and aren't typically stumped in that area, but you may be interested in participating in the contest now that it's open to my Marvel stuff (and OC stuff) as well. Check it out - femmes-fatales.deviantart.com/… .

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 23:32:17 +0000 UTC]

Well, at least I'm not alone.

And yeah, I figured as such with his personality upon reading what the two are like even if one hasn't read House of M. But yes, your descriptions help. Thank you.

And is that right?

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-29 02:40:29 +0000 UTC]

That's good to hear! I never know if people are reading the descriptions or not. They take forever to write though since a lot of work goes into them. First, I read through all of the issues I'm covering (which typically takes weeks or months, depending on how long the era in question is), then I draw all of the characters (I get lucky when I can recycle characters since many don't change costumes) and then I write the descriptions. At the quickest, it takes two hours to write them. Crazy, huh?

Yes! The contest is now opened up to include Marvel ensembles and OC ensembles. Since the Marvel ones have been flopping pretty badly in comparison to other projects I've been working on, I figure it's a good way to drum up some conversations and useful feedback.

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Movie-Man In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-29 02:56:10 +0000 UTC]

Two hours? Very dedicated, I really admire that.

Well, I have begun my part with the Marvel stuff, I may come back here to finish the job.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Movie-Man [2015-12-31 03:09:49 +0000 UTC]

Fabulous!

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Jose-Ramiro [2015-12-23 03:42:18 +0000 UTC]

Again, very good job here.

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Femmes-Fatales In reply to Jose-Ramiro [2015-12-27 20:44:17 +0000 UTC]

Thanks.

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Jose-Ramiro In reply to Femmes-Fatales [2015-12-28 06:47:57 +0000 UTC]

You're very welcome.

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