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Elegant-Rose β Pro-life Stamp
Published: 2009-04-17 16:59:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 2028; Favourites: 99; Downloads: 14
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Yep I'm pro-life....There aren't enough pro-life stamps on DA.
All nasty comments will be ignored.
If you fave or have a nice comment I'll probably reply.
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Comments: 94
You shouldn't have the choice to destroy a life. Period. If you for some reason can't raise the baby, then give it up for adoption.
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Well.... Let's say that you're pregnant. Your baby has a terrible illness/deformed/fill in the blank and may not be able to survive the pregnancy/birth or if it does will be completely depend on you it's entire life( will never walk, talk, go to the bathroom by itself, or other important life stuff.) It would be horrible to have someone suffer like that.
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I totally understand your point! It's something that people have brought up to me and I have had to sit and think on it.Β
I believe that every child should have a chance. My sister suffered a genetic disease and it turns out my future child may have it. And I can know while they are in the womb, and as horrible of a disease it is... I'd want my child to have a chance to live. My sister had a great life despite her illness and was a blessing to me and my family. My life would be so much different without her. You never know how a child can bless others and be blessed. And you certainly won't know if they don't get a chance you know? I could never abort my child. Even if they told me they would die shortly after birth, I'd want to give them a chance to live. Even for a few seconds.Β
There was someone I talked to that was in that situation. She was told her baby would die shortly after but she didn't abort her. She held her in her arms and the baby looked at her and yawned and died in her arms. She doesn't regret her decision at all.Β
My cousin had gotten a divorce and his wife had their baby and didn't tell him. She left their daughter there alone and was going to let that baby die. Doctors told her she wouldn't live more than a few days. My cousin was called by the hospital and learned that he had a baby and knowing what he knew he went and got her. He's poured so much love into her, she's 23 years old... she wasn't supposed to make it more than a few days. Doctors say stuff, but they aren't God. They told us my sister wouldn't make it past 12, but she made it to 22
Just my view on the matter! I'm not saying it would be easy, but I believe life and death should be in God's hands, not ours.
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Yes. I do understand why some people would want to hold their baby after it's born. My mom wouldn't have had me or my sister if it weren't for doctors helping with her fertility troubles. My sister(We were told she was a boy and believed it until she was born) was actually supposed to be dying inside her, but they did another ultrasound on my mom and she was okay.Β
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Oh I'm so glad she was alright!! 
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a birth is notΒ a mirale
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Whatever you say
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I know. Yet... People tell me I shouldn't have saved those cute kittens from the horrible fate of being eaten by eagles.
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In a way pro-life is anti-women. You're not giving her the control of her own body.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=absW29β¦
No one has control of their own bodies. The government already tells you what you can't do with your bodies. You can't stroll down the street naked. You can't go around showing people your body. And you can't kill yourself. People get put on suicide watch... This video is really good about explaining it. Just a thought.Β
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I don't even know how long ago I posted that comment lol
You can't stroll down the street naked because not every parent wants to expose their children to the wonders of the human body quite yet. I'm assuming you mean streaking or flashing or something similar. The above reason also applies to that topic. I'm not interested in discussing suicide so I'll leave that one out.
The video you linked mentions the usual topics for abortion (rape, life threatening), while he does mention the mother not being ready, he fails to go into detail. Would you want to have a child if you KNEW you weren't ready? Some would argue that if you weren't ready, then you should have used a condom. Condom's break, birth control fails, hell even having your tubes tied doesn't always work 100% (unless your ovaries are completely cut out, obvi) and people make mistakes. I'm not sure how to word this next part so bear with me. Would you rather have a child forced into a home where they're not wanted, where they may be put into foster care, bounced around from home to home because their biological parents weren't ready or couldn't afford a child? I'm also kind of against men having a say in abortion anyways unless they have vaginas or are the child's dad and are willing to take care of the kid fully, not just force the kid into the arms of an unfit mother and visit every so often or pay a bit of money every so often, so...
My main point is that every woman should be able to chose what happens in her own body. While yes, the child has it's own body, it's body can't survive without the mother's, so the decision to keep or abort the child should be the mother's, and the mother's alone.
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nobody's saying giving birth means you're forced to raise the baby, if the woman's not ready/ doesn't want to be a mother she should give the baby up for adoption.
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Didn't i address the adoption issue with the Elsa guy? Idk about the UK, but in the US, kids can expect to be in foster care for over two years, and who knoews what those two years will be like, or of two years will turn into ten years. Not to mention the fact that laws are being passed to make the adoption process harder for non-christians, LGBTQIANP+ people, and single people. They're making the process harder for people who actually DO want to adopt, so don't try to pull the "just adopt!!!" argument.
Also please only respond to one of my comments in the future, it makes it very difficult to follow multiple threads with the same person.
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That's a problem that should be fixed, but it doesn't mean that it's better to abort an unwanted baby than give it up for adoption.
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It means that using the "Just adopt!!" argument is bogus until its easier for single people, non-christians, and queer people to adopt children.
Like i said before, please only respond to one comment in the future. It get's confusing for me to have multiple comment threads with the same person.
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Not getting adopted is still better than getting butchered.
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Except most fetuses (91.6%) are aborted before 13 weeks. Β (The information is from 2013, but it's the most recent information from the CDC I could find, which is unbiased and a source I find to be very credible.) The fetus cannot feel any pain at that point as it's brain isn't fully developed.
Am I not going to get that apology, then?
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Why? They're two separate bodies.Β
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You may see it that way, but one of the bodies is feeding off of the nutrients of the other. Not to mention that complications at birth can possibly kill the mother. And I'm not even going to get into pregnancy as a result of rape. Also I made that comment back in July.
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They ARE two different bodies and persons with their very own unique DNA (as well as personality, as will be evident). That the child needs the mother's body to feed the child (whether inside or outside the womb) is not reason enough to argue that the body of the child would be just another part of the mother's body, that's utter nonsense. Complications at birth can kill both the mother and the child (noting that the mother is not more valuable than the child, they are equally precious) but it's considerably more common that both the mother and child survives, as should be expected. Abortion is considerably more dangerous and harmful (both physically and mentally) for both mother and child (which should speak for itself, especially considering it always results in the child being murdered and the mother often and naturally left with guilt and shame of what they've done, leaving haunting memories in their minds, and perhaps even some physical scars and damage to their bodies). As far as pregnancy due to rape goes (which is smaller than even 1% of all reasons for abortions), the child should never suffer for the crime of the father. Period. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Abortion only causes further harm (physical as mental to various people).
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The fetus is still dependent upon the mother until around the start of the third trimester. The mother deserves to decide what happens with her own body, regardless of anyone else's opinions. And how is abortion more dangerous? Do you even know what happens? Because mothers are 14 times more likely to die during childbirth than during abortions. And do you think women are getting pregnant for the sole purpose of aborting the fetus? Because most of the time people are aborting because 1. they can't afford the child 2. they don't believe they can properly raise the child/don't want to bring a child into their home for different reasons 3. they believe they're too young and don't want a child to hold them back (there are many, many more reasons, I'm just listing the first ones that come to mind). And why would women be left with scars from an abortion? The only abortion method I can think of that would leave a scar would be a hysterotomy and there are other abortion methods during the later stages of pregnancy. And finally, do you honestly think forcing a rape victim to give birth to her rapist's child would be less traumatizing than an abortion? Really? I understand that some women may chose to go through with it and have the child, and I'd absolutely support them, but I could never support forcing someone to go through that if they don't want to.Β
This next bit is copy-and-pastes from a previous reply that I still agree with:
-My main point is that every woman should be able to chose what happens in her own body. While yes, the child has it's own body, it's body can't survive without the mother's, so the decision to keep or abort the child should be the mother's, and the mother's alone.
(No offense, but I'm also kind of against men having any say in abortion. Their bodies aren't affected in any way, they don't go through the pains of pregnancy/labor, etc. If they want a child they can adopt or talk to their partner.)
(I should also specify that trans men/nb people who are pregnant/plan to become pregnant absolutely have a say.)
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The child being dependent upon its mother can NEVER justify murdering the child. The mother always deserves to decide what happens with HER OWN BODY, not the child's body. A child always deserves to live, regardless of anyone's selfish irresponsible opinions, interests, feelings or preferences. Abortion is at least 4-7 times more dangerous than childbirth (which should speak for itself), not only because it ALWAYS results in the child being brutally murdered, but also because the mother runs great risks of receiving various types of both physical and mental harm, which (if suffering from the consequences for the rest of her life isn't enough) may even result in her death, if not by physical damage then surely by great grief, guilt, shame and depression. Childbirth is natural and healthy (unlike abortion) for both mother and child, and the chances are considerably higher that both mother and child (noting that both lives are valuable and precious, and that the mother is never worth more than the child) will turn out alive and well. You can read more in the following links:
www.abortionfacts.com/facts/11
afterabortion.org/2000/abortioβ¦
www.lifenews.com/2014/09/12/stβ¦
I know fully well why people abort their poor innocent children, NONE of this is anything new. But the truth is, there is NO justification for abortion, nor can there EVER be. If you don't want a child, then don't bring it into existence in the first place. It's as simple as that. Now let me respond;
"Scars" really refer to anything between actual scars, diseases, and physical complications that may be considerably unhealthy and troubling for the mother. And according to 75-85% of rape victims, they preferred childbirth over abortion. Sure, I don't deny that rape and subsequent childbirth can possibly be traumatic for certain poor individuals (where the actual rape would be the most traumatic portion of the entire situation), but it's certainly better to choose life and support over death and to renounce responsibility. The child should again NEVER pay for the crime of its parent. I would NEVER encourage someone to abortion, regardless of circumstances, but I would do everything that I could to support and help the mother to cope with her pregnancy. I'm also not going to "force" them to go through with their pregnancy, but just as I would do everything in my power to prevent someone from doing a stupid choice like taking their own life, I would do everything I could to prevent a parent from murdering their innocent precious child. I don't force people to avoid murder, but I also do not allow people to murder. Read more;
www.abortionfacts.com/facts/6
www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/β¦
www.gotquestions.org/why-shoulβ¦
Again, YES, any woman has the right to decide what happens with HER OWN BODY, not the child's body. That the child is dependent upon the mother for survival is NEVER any justified reason to murder her child. Abortion should NEVER even be an alternative! It's NEVER her own choice to make. The child's right to life outweighs the mother's wish for her child to die, and if not the child's inherent rights were enough, surely the father has the right to prevent abortion. Again, if you don't want to have a child, then DO NOT bring it into existence to start with. It is so incredibly easy and cheap to just abstain from sex. You have to mature and learn to take actual responsibility for your actions. I sure would never marry someone who allow for murdering children. Both men and women have exactly as much of a right to speak on matters relating to abortion because (1) the woman's own body is NOT the issue, but the lives of innocent precious children are at stake due to ridiculous and selfish reasons and (2) millions of boys and girls are being brutally murdered in the womb. I value LIFE, maturity and responsibility, and I DEFINITELY value the lives of children. There is no excuse.
Further;
lifeisbest.tv
answersingenesis.org/sanctity-β¦
answersingenesis.org/sanctity-β¦
www.gotquestions.org/abortion-β¦
creation.com/antidote-to-abortβ¦
alwaysbeready.com/abortion
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I couldn't agree more.
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(responding on my alt account, it's still me)
Okay, so obviously we're not going to see eye to eye on the value of an unborn fetus vs the mother's life, so I'm done debating that. My opinion won't sway and neither will yours, which is totally fine; we can agree to disagree.
We can also disagree on women controlling their own bodies. (I get that you believe the fetus has it's own body, which I can agree with to an extent, but when one affects the other, the one being affected should get final say, period, but that's just my opinion.) Again, agree to disagree, totally fine, dude.
Now, you mentioned that childbirth is natural while abortion isn't, which is false. Animals regularly abort fetuses. Many mammal species abort their young if a new male arrives, and they'll also abort if they know they can't provide for their young (Sound familiar? Humans do the same if they know they can't raise a child, rather than give birth and allow the child to starve.)
Links:
- So this is from a very obviously pro-life website, so already I'm skeptical. And looking at the sources, all but one study was conducted BEFORE 1985. Science has advanced so much since then, so I'm going to respectfully say that's not a credible source.
- This link covers the most recent study (which is still 17 years old, but oh well) and is also from a biased site, but I'll work with it regardless. It states that women who get abortions are 4 times more likely to die within a year but fails to mention whether it was because of the actual abortion procedure or not. The suicides can be explained by guilt or harassment women who received an abortion get because of the abortion. A lot of people treat women who have abortions horribly which doesn't do anything to help someone whose already depressed.
- Your third link was from a very obviously pro-life website, AGAIN, which itself isn't a deal breaker, but the link to the actual study conducted was broken so I'm disregarding that one; I'd rather read the study myself than have it interpreted on a biased site.
I'll respond to your responses:
1. I'm not sure what it's like in Sweden, but here in the US there aren't enough people looking to adopt, so many kids put into foster homes don't get adopted and end up being aged out of the system, so it's not really a good solution.
2. You realize it's not that easy to just grow up and mature? To go from a young adult looking to start a career and maybe someday DOWN THE ROAD start a family to instantly becoming a parent?
3. Again, I disagree. I feel it'd be more merciful to abort a child than to raise it in a home where it may not be wanted, or where the parents can't afford the child.
I'm happy that those rape victims could lead a happy life and love their child, but I'm also happy that those other rape victims could get an abortion. They have just as much a right to a happy life than anyone else, and if having that baby ould impede that life, I support them in aborting if they think it's the best course of action.
Links:
Just from the url i can tell they're from biased sites and unfortunately I'm a bit done with biased sources at the moment so I'll have to respectfully decline to look. The last one is a christian/religious site, and while I respect someone's right to practice religion, I myself am an atheist (well, member of the Satanic Temple, but we're basically atheists who follow a few specific moral codes), so religious support for an argument doesn't sway me in the least.
Again, idk what it's like in Sweden, but in the States our sex education is garbage lol. So some of these people needing abortions are young teens/pre-teens who don't KNOW about safe sex/abstinence (abstinence-only education in schools has also been linked to higher pregnancy rates so I'd prefer just teaching them how to have safe sex). That also doesn't always work. Condoms break, birth control isn't 100%, hell even having your Fallopian tubes isn't a 100% guarantee either (unless you have your ovaries removed, obviously). And people are going to have sex no matter what, and abortions will ALWAYS happen. I'm pro-choice because I want women to have the choice to get a SAFE abortion. I still don't think men should have any sort of say in abortion because again, it's not their bodies that have to carry a child, nor are they at risk of dying.
I'm not going to comment on the last links except to say not everyone is religious.
If you want to link websites/studies, that's fine, but I'm not looking at anymore articles/sites that are so obviously one-sided; they're unreliable and often contain outdated information.
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You lost all credibility when you admitted to being a member of the Satanic Temple. And pro-life isn't specifically a religious issue, plenty of agnostics and atheists are against abortion.
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How does myself being a member of the Satanic Temple lessen the credibility of my arguments at all? Please tell me, I'm genuinely curious as to how my religion (or lack of) affects the argument I'm making SO MUCH, that it's no longer valid? You do realize that Satanists (or at least Laveyan Satanists, which is what the Satanic Temple would be considered) don't actually worship satan? We're atheists, Christians believe more in the devil than we do. The Satanic Temple is a collection of atheists who prefer to... idk, worship ourselves, but not as a religious figure. It's more about acknowledging that I'm a creature worthy of respect, and not letting people walk all over you which is something I was having a big issue with prior to becoming a member. Here are our seven fundamental tenants if you're interested in educating yourself rather than just insulting me because of my religion (or lack thereof): thesatanictemple.com/pages/ten⦠If you want to actually debate this, then debate, but don't stoop to ad hominems and insult me because you don't like the fact that I call myself a Satanist.
And while I'm on the topic, how would my argument be any less credible even if I DID worshiped Satan? How would worshiping the devil make anything i have to say less credible than what you're saying?
And I'd be just as ready to debate an agnostic/fellow atheist about abortion, but since none have come forward so far, I've not.
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Would you seriously believe anything an actual Satanist had to say on a morality issue?
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Yeah? Why wouldn't I? How does their religion make their arguments any less credible than yours? No religion is inherently better than any other, and to think so is arrogant and inconsiderate.
I'd also like an apology, there was absolutely no reason for you to attack my credibility just because YOU don't understand what the Satanic Temple stands for.
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I realize too we're not going to see eye to eye. Bottom line, I won't change my stance on this. I still value children greatly, I will still fight for their rights, and there are no excuses for aborting them. Yes, people are going to have sex, but the moment abortion was made legal and available it skyrocketed. Make it illegal and remove availability for abortion and people will be naturally encouraged to avoid having sex. As for your point on "abortion supposedly being natural", animals do NOT abort their offspring, what you may be referring to are when a new male lion arrives and kills the cubs to make the females fertile again. This is more similar to when a man meets a woman and murders her children against her will just so he can have his own children with her. Second, that's not precisely what I meant with "natural", but I meant that childbirth is simply a natural, common, expected, and traditional practice among people from the beginning of time. Abortion is unnatural, immoral and dangerous. You're a member of the "Satanic Temple"? Wow... I've been an atheist too, for 20 years, and I would dare say we are ALL being religious, just adhering to different types of personal religions or religious behaviors and values (or worldviews or philosophies if you will). I'm only a Christian today because I could not escape the reality of God.
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Animals do abort their young. As a biology student I'm well aware of new male lions killing the young of rival males, but that's infanticide, not abortion. Animals DO actually abort their young naturally as can be read in these articles:
1. This one talks about mice and geladas aborting young: blogs.discovermagazine.com/notβ¦
2. This one about caribou and orcas:Β www.alternet.org/personal-healβ¦
3. I wasn't able to find any links on this atm, but from personal knowledge I know that rats, rabbits, and many other mammals abort and re-absorb the fetus if their is inadequate food or overcrowded living spaces.
Abortion is absolutely found in nature, and your comment that abortion is "unnatural, immoral and dangerous" is your opinion.
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What you're referring to here as "abortion" in regards to these animals is a poor excuse for "abortion". Generally, when we speak of abortion, it concerns the conscious decision of a human being to end the life (murder) of your child while in the womb. You should never base your arguments for how you should behave and act on how animals behave and act. My statement that abortion is unnatural, immoral and dangerous is nothing but objective fact. Otherwise, would you dare go as far as saying pedophilia, zoophilia, rape, incest, and cannibalism is only "unnatural, immoral and dangerous in my own opinion"? All of these things occur in nature, but that doesn't mean you should apply it to mankind.
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Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy, and what I described is abortion whether you like it or not. You said it was unnatural and I showed you it IS natural. Animals decide to abort because of outside factors just like people do. You're moving the goalpost. Your opinion that abortion is "unnatural, immoral and dangerous" IS your opinion. Not everyone shares that view, dude. If we can't even agree on what an opinion is vs what a fact is then this conversation is over. Facts have evidence to support them, opinion is based on feelings and not facts. You realize that morals change from person to person? What you see as moral might be seen as immoral by another, and vise versa. Humans are animals, so yeah, we share a lot of traits with our animal relatives.
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Well, when we can't even agree that morals/opinions are subjective and vary from person to person, and facts are objective, we can't really progress in the conversation, so idk what you expected me to say.Β Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
Anyways animals abort their fetuses and it's natural.
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Any reason for the sudden passive aggression?
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Well, quite frankly, since it seems increasingly pointless attempting to reason with you, I cannot do much else than leave you to your delusions.
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Yikes. Anyways I'm not the one insulting your viewpoints and calling them delusional. We can't even agree on the fact that morals are subjective and vary from person to person. What I view as morally acceptable, you might view as atrocious, and vice versa. Abortion is absolutely natural and happens to our mammalian relatives on a daily basis, but for some reason you don't want to believe those facts, despite myself providing you multiple unbiased links about the subject.
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So, I am "insulting you" by stating that it is delusional to claim that kidnapping, raping, and murdering children is "morally acceptable"? You're doing nothing more than further proving my point, and it's open for everyone to see for themselves.
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Hmmmmmmmmm... If you could show me exactly where I said kidnapping, raping, and murdering children is acceptable, yeah, that'd be dandy, because those are some serious claims. And I'm not talking "Oh, you said this, so if I twist your words into the biggest fucking pretzel knot of all time, you ACTUALLY said THIS, AH-HA!!" I'm talking word for word, girl. I don't take those allegations lightly, nor do I appreciate them. And if you DON'T show me where I said those exact words, I'd like an apology because as I said, those are very serious claims to make.
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You said morals are "subjective", which means we're merely talking personal preferences, so would it not be true then that it would be morally acceptable to commit such awful crimes? Would it not be true that the only reason you could ever say it would be "wrong" is because you personally think so? Would it not be true that you would then also be "wrong" because someone committing the crime thinks you are wrong? The delusion of subjective morals is highly irrational and contradicts itself. It doesn't work. It renders the very concept of "morals" into mere personal opinions and preferences, in other words utterly meaningless.
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But morals ARE subjective. Like I said, what you think is acceptable and what I think is acceptable could be two totally different things. To answer your question: I personally don't think those crimes are okay, but I'm sure there are some vile people out there who would say otherwise.
We get most of our morals from growing up in moral societies (there are always outliers, though), but some we develop on our own. I think it's safe to assume we're both against the aforementioned crimes because we were raised in moral societies and are social animals by default. We're taught to not brutalize our fellow people because it's MORALLY wrong. The only thing stopping one of my classmates from punching me is that their morals are telling them it's wrong (and the risk of punishment, but that's another discussion).
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You can repeat yourself as much as you want, the problems and the contradictions riddled throughout your words still won't go away. You gotta deal with your issues, lest they are only waiting to strike you down.
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Okay, so please plainly say what my apparent problems and contradictions are so I may address them.
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