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Desidus In reply to JLMC [2009-06-08 02:05:47 +0000 UTC]

1) I'm agnostic, not atheist. I don't allow myself to be fooled by any religion that cannot prove its so-called facts. And that's every religion, that's why it's called faith and not fact. Obviously we were created by something, somehow, but no religion can prove anything. You repeat what was taught to you, and you are told to never question it or you go to hell. I say ask questions, have doubt - only then does mankind progress in discovering facts.
2) Criticism's one thing, but your comment is not that. It's hatred and close-mindedness, and you are what is wrong with society.
3) I see you're a Christian who loves war. That's a sad future. Why would a God ever want its creations to kill one another? We don't need religion - which is based on faith and not fact - to encourage so-called "holy wars" in the name of God, to kill those who do not think the same way we do. That's ignorance. To every other religion, you're the one who is a blasphemer. Strange how every religion is right and all others are wrong. Because your way can be the only way, right? That's what you're told, that's what you are brainwashed to believe.
4) You prove my point.
5) You have been reported.
6) Do not comment on any of my art ever again. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you don't need to push your beliefs on others.

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JLMC In reply to Desidus [2009-06-10 17:04:52 +0000 UTC]

Ok first, How dare you call me close minded. second I used to be alot like you, I didn't believe god was out there and then I took a little more time to talk to god and go to church, I have no denomination in church, just that I am christian. Third, I do not hate other religions or believe they are wrong, I just don't believe the same thing they believe. Fourth, How dare you criticize my when I am just a person who clings to the hope that there is something good that will come out of all this suffering in this world. Fifth, That picture seems very anti-american, I notice that all the soldiers in that picture are American and you're probably an anti-american Liberal who voted for Obama, the man that the Liberals worship as god. Sixth I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone, but I think its very sad that you can't believe anything unless you have visual or written proof. Seventh, Yes war fascinates me, and yes I would join the military if I could, but I can't. I want to give something back to this country and all those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice so that you have the right to hate god and deny that he exists. Eighth, yes I think people have done a good number of wars and crusades of religious cleansing in the name of god and Jesus, I don't necessarily think that it was right of either side to do what they did, and some of them are still doing, but I would kill everyday for the right to be a christian and worship god like the many millions of others out there who would say much of the same to you that I am saying. We are all children of god and you can deny that, fine Im not stopping you, you can believe whatever the hell you want, sure I in a sense Glorify war, and I get a rush of ultimate adrenaline on the field of combat, but don't you dare criticize me for believing or try to tell others that god does not exist. You go into your dark corner and believe that we're all just going to die because science cannot explain god to you, fine live your life that way, Im not stopping you or others like you, I don't go to church that often, and Im not the most religious kind of man on the planet, but I know that there is a reason for what happens here, and why it happens. I question god and his reasons for things plenty, and where Im from I am told that god gave us free will and the ability to question him, and that isn't gonna send us to hell, you might go to hell because you dont believe he exists or you might just become nothing, your soul will vanish when you die and that will be the end of you, not my problem. You call yourself agnostic but a good number of agnostic people believe in god and the like but they also require a bit more fact in their lives than others. You apparently don't believe in god at all, which makes you an agnostic atheist, you can believe what you want but don't you fucking dare belittle me for having faith in a world where faith can be pretty much all you've got, think about what I've said to you and I swear the minute you try yo convince someone else who isn't like you that god doesn't exist its gonna come down hard on your ass, you can have your agnosticism and your atheism and try to shove it down people's throats, but you are doing exactly what you tell me not to do. Don't try to convince people of your ideas and call us a backwards people and society for being able to see the light through the darkness you try to envelop us in. -JLMC

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Desidus In reply to JLMC [2009-06-13 08:29:06 +0000 UTC]

First off, let me start off by reiterating I specifically said do not ever comment on my art or profile ever again. Seeing how you don’t listen, I’ll take the time to respond, because it IS my profile and art, afterall, so I have that right. Now, if you can be civilized and mature about it, I’m always open to a discussion about religion and politics, because I want answers, I want to understand different views. But the second you insult me out of nowhere, or blindly argue against me rather than discuss WITH me, then all discussions are closed. If you can’t do that, then don’t even bother replying to this. If you can keep an open mind, I WANT to hear your IDEAS, but not your insults and accusations.

Before I go into anything, however, I’ll remind you of the scenario here. I posted a piece of art a long time ago. It never outright tried to disprove religion, it simply asked questions, and gave a view on war, politics, and religion, and how they all relate. And it was all inspired by the lyrics of a SONG. It’s my interpretation, nothing more, nothing less. It proposes alternatives, it asks questions, and that’s all. Then, you came across said piece of art and instead of proposing reasons or answers to said questions, you simply typed “Atheist Bastard!”. Tell me, do you honestly think that’s fair, for you to call me that out of nowhere, and without knowing anything about me, when all I did was propose questions? You don’t like it, move on. You want to discuss it, do so in a professional manner. So let me dissect your reply. And keep in mind, no matter how it may sound while reading this, I am not angry and the tone of this is intended to be a calm debate, not an angry one. That said…

How dare I call you closed-minded? For the reasons above, I’d say it’s fair to say so, when you came to ME first, and insulted ME based on art that I put time into. Do you think that’s fair? Did I got to your page and say “you Christian bastard!” out of nowhere? No, I did not. The fact that I’m not allowed to have my beliefs, or ask simple questions to which no one, it seems, has answers, is what you would call closed-mindedness. Every religion believes it is right, every country believes it is the hero, everyone wants to be right. Who’s to judge? Based on your religion, it’s God, correct? So why judge me? Why does my art offend you so much that you have to insult me? Let your god judge me. If I’m wrong, and you’re right, you’ll reap the benefits and I will go to hell.

However, I don’t feel it is wrong to propose ideas or ask questions if something is unclear to me. Humans thirst for knowledge. And what I stated in my comments for the art is that in a time when we didn’t have answers, we made reasons to explains things, like the world was flat, like stars are gods, that the earth had to be the center of the universe and everything revolved around us. If we were not allowed to ask questions about such things, we never would have progressed to the age we are in. You cannot argue that. So my question is simply why are we not allowed to ask questions in religions? I don’t think a god that created everything and enjoyed its creations would mind if we wanted to know and understand things.

You say you used to be like me. First off, no you weren’t, for I never said I didn’t believe god wasn’t out there. I said I don’t believe any religion has it right. I straight out said that obviously the universe and life was created someway. But that’s what agnostic beliefs are – that we don’t know the answer, that we may never know the answer, but we keep an open mind. I ask questions because I wouldn’t mind knowing the truth. But you know, I was in YOUR position once too. I used to go to church, I used to pray to god, because that’s what I was taught to do. But anytime in church when I asked questions about why god said this or that, or why this is this way and that is that way, I was told specifically to NOT ask questions, and to never doubt my religion, in a very stern voice. Well, you see, that’s not good enough for me. If I’m told to donate my time and money to something, I wanna make sure it’s going to something good and I’m not being fooled. If some stranger asked you to donate money to them, and you asked why, and they said don’t question them and to just do it, I think it’s safe to assume you wouldn’t exactly jump at the chance to trust them. As I got older, I got wiser, and saw the corruption in churches, religions, and politics. I made up my mind that I don’t need a religion to do good things for people, to live a good life, and to hope for peace in the world. See, if a god exists, he, she, or it doesn’t care about big fancy churches or monetary donations or expensive clothes. It didn’t create those things, so why would it care about petty things? I don’t need to buy expensive Jesus-branded merchandise or audio cd’s, nor do I think a god’s holy book of teachings should ever have a price tag tacked onto it. But there it is, in my local bookstore, right next to all the other so-called holy books and the Teen magazines. People making money off of merchandising religion… I find that disturbing and ironic to the very teachings of any religion.

You said you are a christian with no denomination in your reply. But your profile says you are an unshakeable christian. That doesn’t sound like open-mindedness to me. In fact, it means everything I’m saying right now is for naught, because you won’t take the time to make sense of any of it. Because if you do, you’ll fear you’ve doubted god, and in turn he will abandon you. Fear is a good way to recruit and keep followers in tact. It’s worked for centuries. You say you do not hate other religions or believe they are wrong. That doesn’t even make sense. First off, if you respected other people’s beliefs and did not believe they were wrong, you wouldn’t have commented on my page, with no provoking from me whatsoever, that I am an “Atheist Bastard”. That doesn’t sound like the words of a christian, nor does it back up your claim of respecting others’ beliefs. You decided you’re right, I’m wrong, and that I must be an atheist, and/or a bastard, when in reality I am neither.

If you want to cling to hope, that something good will come out of suffering, then that’s fine. If you understood my art piece, you would clearly see that’s exactly what I want too. But my point is how can we ever reach peace if generation after generation we start wars with one another in the name of religion, or love, or power, etc. In fact, religion had only a fraction to do with this piece. If you took the time to read it and understand it, you’d see it was more of a political standpoint than a religious one, and that religion tied into it only because that’s what the current wars are all about. How can we ever be at peace or have hope for our future generations if we can’t put aside our differences? This piece was done back in the time Bush was in office. You know every time he received an update on the wars, it was presented with a picture and a quote from the bible? Bush even said that christianity was a foundation for his foreign policy. A country should never be ran based on religious beliefs, because there’s that little chance you may be wrong, and not everyone believes the same thing as you anyways. Not even all christians take the same meaning from the bible, some interpret it differently than others.

You say the art seems anti-American. At the time, I wasn’t proud to be an American, most of the world thought poorly of America, and I believe righteously so. We killed tons of innocent people in pursuit of one man whom has yet to be captured. Did I mean for the piece to be anti-American? No. I’m anti-war, that doesn’t make me anti-American. I was anti-Bush because he believed strongly in war. Again, if you took the time to understand it, it’s saying that to a nation that supports war, you are a figure to them once you join its military. You are stripped of any individuality and are part of an expendable group of human weapons that politicians send out to kill and be killed. They don’t dare fight the fight themselves. I don’t know how many times I saw on the news how we killed innocent people, or how our very own American soldiers were killed or committed suicide. You want to talk anti-American, look at the death tolls from the war. More American soldiers have died than the victims of 9/11. Tell me, if you died in war or your loved one did, would money or a leader saying “yeah, sorry about that” and moving on console you any? You’re a number to them, casualties get a quick “I’m sorry to hear about the loss, yada yada” in front of the cameras (gotta keep the publicity positive, right??), the government throws the family some money, and the world moves on. But to the friends and family of the victim, life doesn’t move on. Monetary compensation doesn’t make it better, “sorry” doesn’t bring them back. But by that time, the victim’s already been replaced by a new recruit, until we expend him or her, rinse, and repeat.

So let me get this straight, a group of people attacks us, kills some of our people, and we retaliate by starting a war that ends up costing us way more American lives than were taken by the enemy, not to mention the same amount or more innocent lives in other countries. So by retaliating the way we did, we became the very thing we condemned. That’s what I find ironic, and that’s as far as this piece goes. It questions if war is the answer, and proposes that it is not. Not to mention the fact that Muslims afterward were immediately victims of unfair prejudice, judgment, and hate crimes simply because they were grouped into one big category of people of different faith who must hate America. Religion and politics, hand-in-hand. Quick to judge others who think differently than ourselves, quick to point the finger, and how easy to create a scapegoat in the confusion.

Do I believe that no war was ever worth fighting? Apparently you believe I do, but I fail to see any mentioning of that by myself. For example, the Civil War? Worth it. World War II to take down Hitler? Worth it. But they were a desperate answer – not necessarily the only answer. Could we have solved racial equality in a different way? Perhaps, perhaps not. That is simply what I am asking, though. Do we have all the right answers? The answer is sometimes yes, and sometimes no. I never took a definitive side.

The figures in my piece are American soldiers? They’re silhouettes for the most part, which was my intent, since this way the majority remain ambiguous and NOT from any particular country in order to represent that this is a global issue. The ones in the sign come from propaganda posters, so that couldn’t be helped. The ones on the right I thought were perhaps from a different country actually, but if you say they’re American, I’ll take your word for it. But I’ve also included other figures as well, which are clearly from other countries. The soldier with his arm in the cast I see as British (again, could be wrong). The fact is, I searched for images to juxtapose, and these are the images that came up during my search, So if you think I’m anti-American, maybe you should be complaining to Google for providing nothing but Americans when I type in “war”. An artist works with the tools he is given. I feel I represented many races and religions by the imagery I used, however.

As for the straight-up American pieces, such as the flag and Statue of Liberty, yes those were intentional. Liberty is a symbol of freedom. In my piece, it symbolizes two things: that that’s what we should be striving for is peace, not war. And that it’s ironic that we start wars in the name of peace and freedom, when war goes against all that. This piece covers all countries, all religion, all races. I don’t see anywhere in my description where I mention christianity or America specifically. I mention Jesus once by name, but that’s an example. How much do you know about your religion? Did you know it’s just recycled material from many other religions? Many stories have been told about worlds being created in 7 days, a son being born to a virgin, etc. Not just christianity. Don’t think your religion is unique, because it’s not. I’m not saying that’s bad or good, I’m simply saying that this piece can speak to many people of many beliefs, because they all have many things in common anyways.

You said I’m “robably an anti-american Liberal who voted for Obama, the man that the Liberals worship as god.” Tell me, how did Obama come into this picture? How can you respect other people’s beliefs when you can’t even respect their right to vote for whomever they want? Did I vote for Obama? Yes, because he made sense to me. And guess what? He’s christian! Do I hold that against him, no, because so far he has not run government based on his religious beliefs. I liked his views on education, healthcare, economy, etc. I don’t worship him as a god or as a savior. He’s a man, plain and simple. He’ll make mistakes, he won’t be perfect, he won’t fix all the problems in the world and lead us to the promised land. It’s funny how you get so mad at me when you’re the ones making all the assumptions and belittling everyone who thinks differently from you into one big group. So you don’t like Obama. So by your very same reasoning, does that mean you worship McCain as god? Because clearly whomever one votes for as President must worship said person as his or her god. Quit assuming things and making bizarre accusations to back up your beliefs, because they don’t fly. Obama has absolutely nothing to do with this piece. He wasn’t President when I made it, he wasn’t even my first pick as a candidate – a republican was! See? I’m open-minded and flexible. But you bringing up Obama, as a “god” that “liberals” worship proves a major theme for this piece – religion dictates politics. You assumed I could only be a liberal because I was not christian, and as a liberal, I must surely have been for Obama. When every candidate in this past election was openly christian, and my original pick was a republican! And you assumed that I would worship a MAN as a GOD. Definitely not true, but it sure sounds like someone else I know in CHRISTianity…

You say you’re not pushing your beliefs on anyone. Then why did you feel the need to call me an “Atheist Bastard”? I don’t come to your house, ring your bell, and when you answer call you a faith fanatic. I really hope you see how immature and contradicting you’ve been by starting this all with those two words, out of nowhere. Because clearly you are pushing your beliefs on others if they’re not allowed to believe something else without being called names. That’s basically defacing my art, because it’s a hateful insult posted on MY page, not a comment nor constructive criticism. I’m not a christian anymore, but I am fully aware of its teachings, and Jesus would not have approved of name-calling. Period. Go repent.

Meanwhile, would you mind if I showed up while you weren’t home and stuck a sign into the ground or spray-painted your house with the words “Religious Prick”? It’s basically the same thing – I didn’t invite you, you had no reason to post that comment, no more than I have a reason to show up unexpectedly and deface your house or lawn with hateful insults. (And because I fear you’ll take that the wrong way, no, I’m not calling you a religious prick, it’s basically the same thing you called me but tailored to you and I’m using it as an example. I don’t mean it.)

Let’s take this a step farther though. Everyday I drive to and from work, I pass 4 churches. 3 of those churches have marquees that advertise their religion to me, either to join, or that the end is coming, or that I will be judged, etc. Another one is a huge building that has an entire wall facing the freeway, and in huge letters says that “Jesus is the way, the truth…” Look, I’m not saying don’t believe what you believe. But I don’t need to be told that I’m going to hell or that I’m less of a person for not believing the same thing. Last time I checked, I was allowed to make up my own mind in this country, and that’s simply what I was doing here. I have Christians that come up to me and give me reading material, that try to recruit me for their church. Religion is all about popularity contests, converting people, and winning. Believe what you want, I don’t need anyone to pray for me or save me. Leave that up to me. If I’m wrong, that’s on me. But a true loving god would never abandon its creations, just as a father would never abandon his own offspring, even if they weren’t perfect. And I don’t show up at your bus stop or work or house and preach agnostic views, nor do I post huge signs saying “Believers are idiots!! Don’t believe them. They are the ones truly going to hell!!!” No, I did a simple art piece that simply proposed questions, not slam my beliefs into the faces of unwilling people. I’m not looking to recruit, just looking for answers.

Now, I live in California. A state that gave equal rights to everyone, as it should, then allowed religion to dictate our laws. We allowed religion to take human rights away. What does it matter if gays marry? How holy is 50% of straight marriages? People marry for love, but others marry for citizenship, for wealth, for power, for political reasons, some are arranged marriages… I voted against Prop 8, because I’m not a christian, and that’s really what it came down to. The bible was quoted so many times, but if it’s the bible you want to quote, then doesn’t it also say to treat others as you would like to be treated yourself? I guess that doesn’t apply to the gays. Now I’m not gay, but their lifestyle doesn’t affect me, so long as a guy doesn’t try to rape me. I’m not forced to marry him, my son won’t hafta marry a guy… It’s called equality. But because religion dictated that gays are evil creatures that should not marry, we allowed our society to suddenly take 50 steps backward. If god created mankind, and something “goes wrong”, isn’t it god’s fault for not making man “erfect” (that is, “straight”? But I guess that’s why you have to introduce Satan, and blame all bad things on him, that way you can always have an explanation for when things don’t go right. But then again, if Satan’s responsible for it… and if Satan tempted Eve, and she released evil unto the world… I wonder, shouldn’t we ban marriage to women? I mean, afterall, they’re the ones that unleashed sin, which in turn caused the gay imperfections… Something to think about. Women, we’re taught, are the reason sin and evil exist now in the world, and yet we say to marry them is fine but don’t let those “fags” marry – God hates them. I’d think he’d be more upset with women than with any other group of people.

But what about all the people that get married that aren’t of the same religion, or color, or age, or body type. People think gays getting married is gross, but I may think old fat people getting married is gross (I don’t, but as an example). Does that mean old fat people shouldn’t get married, because of what I believe? No. Man created the concept of marriage, and man can reinvent it. Marriage – gay or straight – is kind of meaningless anyways, it doesn’t mean anything – you don’t love the person any more or less because some paper says you’re officially a couple. It’s more for legal reasons, and simply for fun. Like a birthday – we celebrate one every year, but in reality, time is linear, we measure it in days and years and so forth, but that’s for keeping records, data, etc. But it’s fun to celebrate your birth, just like it’s fun to get married. It’s just something we do as tradition. So let people have fun, regardless of who they are. Let them be happy, be in love, it doesn’t affect your life anymore than straight people getting married does. And the gays that already got married are allowed to stay married… so now, we’re saying, it’s okay for some of the gays, but no more. That’s fair? That’s equal? We’re allowing them to stay married, and guess what? The world hasn’t ended yet. So we might as well keep going.

What it boils down to, is if religion can dictate laws and deny rights to certain groups of people, where does it end? If it says in the bible marriage is between a man and woman (which no one has to this day told me exactly where it says that specifically), and I’m agnostic or someone is Jewish or Hindu… are we allowed to get married? Because we don’t follow the bible, which would make us sinners just like the gays, so really it should say “marriage is between a christian man and a christian woman”. Because you have to believe in God and not be a sinner apparently in order to get married. It’s just a matter of time before other rights get taken away, marriage-wise or other areas of society, for any group of people that any religion feels threatened by. It was once against the law for whites and blacks to use the same bathroom or water fountain, let alone marry each other. Then we realized that wasn’t right. So we changed things. That’s what happened with marriage. People are beginning to realize that equality needs to apply to everyone and everything if we want to progress in civilization. But then religion stepped in and forced its beliefs on everyone else. ‘Cause if it didn’t, all those gay marriages surely would’ve ended the world. Well, I for one say if gay marriage is banned to “rotect marriage,” let’s also ban straight divorces in order to protect marriage as well. And let’s start deciding which straight couples can get married and which can’t, ‘cause we need to protect marriage and not have couples elope in Vegas one drunk night thinking it’d be fun and then regret it later. Most gay marriages are built more out of love and respect than some straight marriages. Moving on…

Do I need proof of something in order to believe it? Yes and no. But I do if I want to believe it without a doubt. It’s only reasonable to want proof. If someone told you, “I can give you information that proves without a doubt that christianity is 100% proven to be true”, would you shrug it off and say “nah, I’m happy just having faith it’s true”? No, you would jump at the chance to prove wrong everyone else who doubted you. You want proof just as much as I do, so long as you’re right. What if the opposite happened, and they said “I can give you information that proves without a doubt that christianity is 100% proven to be fake”? Would you be open-minded or closed-minded? Would you pass on it because it threatened everything you believed? The chance you may be wrong? My point being, you would ridicule me for demanding proof that your religion is the truth, yet would ask me for proof that it is not. I can’t prove that you’re right, you can’t prove that I’m wrong. Neither side has proof they’re right, so why take a side? The difference is, if you’re right, I have nothing to lose – I didn’t dedicate my life to rules and beliefs, I simply said I’m open to any that make sense and can be proven. However, if you’re wrong, you have everything to lose – especially “in a world where faith can be pretty much all you've got” as you put it. Closed-minded people set themselves up for disappointment.

I hate when people use the whole “you can’t see air but it exists” analogy, because we can use science to prove that it exists. And I can feel it. We can measure it. So it’s not the same. I need more than so-called eyewitnesses in an ancient scripture to prove to me what I am preached is the truth. Again, people believed many things back then, and that’s why I’m weary of eyewitnesses. There’s a documentary where a man went to a third-world country and performed very basic tricks, such as a ball that would move when he demanded, among other things. Nothing fancy, just basic stuff using nature. But the trick was there was a mouse hidden inside, and all the tricks had very basic foundations that didn’t require any of today’s technology to pull off. The village was freaked out – some were in awe and praised him for his abilities, some were scared and angry and deemed him a sorcerer. When he revealed to them how he did these “miracles”, the villagers felt very stupid. My point? People can be very gullible, and just because so-called miracles were performed, doesn’t mean they were. In fact, there are many documentaries that will explain many events, such as the parting of the Red Sea, among others. It took a man to sail across the world to prove you would not fall off of it. Until then, it was a fact that the world was flat and you’d fall right off if you’re careful. Almost every “miracle” in the bible can be explained – many things were not literal but rather figurative. Explain why no one today performs these awesome miracles. Because we’re not as gullible anymore. If someone came along and claimed to be the 2nd coming of Christ (which many people have, by the way), would you believe them? The bible says that when Satan (whose existence I also question) will actually be the nicest guy you’ll meet, to trick everyone. So how will we know which is Jesus and which is Satan? Every religion’s teachings are worded in such a careful way to be vague enough to keep its followers from straying. But the fact is, if people try to claim they’re a prophet now, or they’re the devil, or whatever, we lock them up in insane asylums.

If I confessed to you right now that I’m actually the 2nd coming of Jesus, and that this was all a test to see how faithful you actually were, would you believe me? I’m betting the answer is no. So how will you ever believe the 2nd coming of Jesus is actually Jesus, and not just the antichrist trying to trick you?

I find it interesting that you “would kill everyday for the right to be a christian and worship god like the many millions of others out there who would say much of the same to you that I am saying.” That’s my point. That scares me. Because you know those “bad guys” that we’re fighting? They believe the same thing. Which reiterates my question – who is right and who is wrong? Who is the hero and who is the enemy? Because to each side, they fight for the good cause. We’re their enemy, but we’re heroes to ourselves. They’re our enemy, but they’re heroes to themselves. And they will kill everyday in the name of their god, because that’s what they believe they must do. When will we quit being loyal to the country in which we were born beyond our control, and start being loyal to the planet on which we were ALL born? See, I’m not anti-American, but I’m not pro-American. I do not owe this country anything, nor does it owe me anything. Humanity owes it to itself, as a whole, to work together to survive and live peacefully. They’re not the space aliens in your video games. They’re flesh and blood, just like you. We need to stop having loyalty to a piece of land – the entire planet belongs to each of us, not one country. I was born here, but did I have a choice? I could have easily been born in China, or an island, or even in a boat or airplane. In that case, to which land do I pledge my allegiance if I wasn’t even born on land? Try pledging it to earth, and how about instead of killing our fellow mankind, we help each other survive, as a species should? How about instead of pouring billions of dollars into wars, we feed Africa? That’s another part of this art piece, if you took the time to understand. We cut education, we cut healthcare, people are losing their jobs and can’t feed their children, but we always find the money to spend on wars. Because mankind can’t seem to ever get along with itself, we suffer. Humanity suffers. All because of where we just happened to be born.

The fact that you would kill everyday the people that don’t think like you scares the hell out of me. Because I can’t grasp the concept of taking human lives in the name of a creator who made said human lives. These are not the digital humans in our video games. You love war so much, and you love your war-themed video games so much… Life is not a video game bro. I love video games too, but I understand reality. The reality of war is you take lives, you wake up sweating and trembling from nightmares and stress, you live your life in fear that you’ll be killed or blown up, you may be captured and tortured. Your family may be the casualties of war. You can lose everything in war – many soldiers commit suicide because they can’t deal with what they’ve seen and done. You don’t know squat until you’re in a war, and you will see it is not pretty. And it haunts you and tortures you for the rest of your life, and that takes a toll on your family and friends as well. Some soldiers come back and go crazy, killing other people along with themselves because they have flashbacks of the horrible things they encountered in war. And they, too, all thought it’d be cool to have guns and grenades when they joined. And then they faced reality. I shouldn’t have to fear a soldier that fought for my country, worried he might come back mentally unstable and kill innocent people in his own country. It’s ironic.

Speaking of killing, I love Bill Mahr in Religulous, where he talks with a guy selling a statue of Mary and Jesus for $2,700 (didn’t know you could put a price tag on god, but I guess he’s very marketable and profitable)… he asks him if he believes that no matter what, is he absolutely positive that after he dies he’ll be going to a better place with god to enjoy a happier life than the one we have on earth. The man answers he was positive of that. Bill Mahr asks him, “So why not kill yourself?”

I find that funny, ‘cause the guy doesn’t know how to answer. And it relates to you. You’re willing to kill in the name of god, but are you willing to kill yourself to be with god? If you’re so certain, so “unshakeable,” then your better life awaits - where us “atheist bastards” won’t be able to “envelop you in our darkness.” No, it makes more sense to kill others, ‘cause who cares what happens to them after they die, you’re still alive and well. That’s a bit unfair I think. (Now here’s a HUGE disclaimer: I’m NOT suggesting, nor would I ever want you or anyone else, to kill yourself. It’s simply posing a hypothetical question. Unfortunately, there are people that do believe that and often take others with them. Again, I’m AGAINST that, I value all life above all other things. Just another way people use beliefs to brainwash their followers into doing anything, even to the extremity of suicide.) Speaking of suicide, I asked a very religious friend of mine once, why is it I can kill a ton of people, ask for god’s forgiveness, and all is well. But if I kill myself, there is no forgiveness? He didn’t have an answer. He said, “That’s just how it is.” And that’s my point. I get that same answer for so many questions. People follow beliefs they can’t even explain, but they want everyone else to follow them. I guess that’s just how it is. Don’t ask, don’t tell. It’s worked all this time, why change the strategy?

Nothing is worth the brutality of war. Again, have good things come from war? Yes. I don’t question that. But was it the only way? Perhaps, perhaps not. That’s my proposal, open for debate. Nothing more, nothing forced. You would kill everyday to keep freedom alive. But freedom for whom? Just christians? Or every single person on this planet? Would you kill to keep freedom alive for gays? For Jews? For Muslims? For Satanists? For atheists and agnostics? I’m not saying you wouldn’t, it’s merely an open-ended question for you to answer to yourself. Because if you can’t say yes to any and all of those, simply because they are not the way your religion teaches you to be, then that is my point. The world thrives on differences, we don’t all have to agree, but we shouldn’t be denying people rights, starting wars, or taking lives over such trivial matters. Live your life, be happy, the end. Quit the quarrelling, end the wars and violence, and have respect for other beliefs, because you just might not be right. Hard to believe, I know, but someone’s gotta be the winner, and someone’s gotta be the loser. And it may just be you. Or me. But who knows for sure? You don’t kill in the name of something you simply believe MAY be true. Imagine how red your face would be if you found out the lives you took were for the wrong reason – that they were actually right and you were wrong. You don’t kill based on faith.

You take a look at WWII I believe it was, where during Christmas, two sides that were fighting each other agreed to not fight for that day, and shared food, stories, and warmth. Then the next day, they went back to fighting each other. These were soldiers that realized the enemy was just doing their job, as they were. That there were in fact no enemies, just two sides that were fighting for their leaders’ ideas. But they understood they were all human, they all had memories and lives and families that meant everything to each of them. Now are there bad people in the world? Most definitely. Hitler, bin Laden, etc. These are people that I don’t mind seeing get killed, because their beliefs are to the extreme, and threaten the very lives of others who question them. But at the same time, they believed they were doing their faith a favor. They killed for it. They didn’t see a problem in doing so. But let’s take these selective individuals on as that – individuals. A country shouldn’t face war because of the beliefs or decisions of a few select people. Just as the victims of 9/11 didn’t deserve to die because of what our leaders at the time believed or did.

Part of my art is also about our military’s recruiting process. We learn from an extremely young age to pledge allegiance to our flag and country, and all about uncle sam, we put on plays for him, sing about him, and we’re marketed war games. Any other violent game like GTA and politicians get into huge uproars about protecting our children from violence, yet there’s our army, making video games available for free on their website to appeal to the teen male, get him excited and interested, then recruit him and give him a gun. And politicians turn the other cheek. Then they say go kill and die for your country. I say LIVE for your country, and let others live for theirs. My point is that our military reaches out to us and markets to us as early as kindergarten. They come to our schools and show off their big shiny helicopters. We teach kids from an early age that war is an acceptable option to get what you want. That we have to fight the “bad guys.” But kids in every nation are taught that, too. That’s why I included the image of the kid with a gun and in military gear. The day we stop teaching our future generations that war is an option, that’s a future that can eventually see no reason to own weapons, or establish a military, or kill others. But as long as we keep war alive, we’re doomed to repeat history over and over again. And that’s a sad future. Not just for America, for all nations. Little kids in Iraq are taught to hate you simply because you’re American. That war is good in the name of Allah. That killing you is a good thing. It’s sad to know that because man is so stupid and stubborn sometimes, that this will always be our lifestyle, to quarrel and kill based on stubborn beliefs. It’s sad to me that the fairy tales in religious books seem more plausible than a perfect, peaceful world. I may not believe the teachings of the bible, but if you ask me what I think the chances are of either hearing a talking snake tell me to eat an apple, or world peace at last, and I’d hafta say bet on the snake. Man is too stubborn to ever come together peacefully in the end.

Innocent children are our future. But we contaminate their minds with war, racism, prejudice, religion, and politics, and therefore history repeats itself. Now I’m not saying don’t pass on your beliefs to your offspring, that’s not what I mean by “contaminating their minds with religion”. I mean the corrupt side of religion, the bad side of religion, like scandals and extreme activists, the faith fanatics. Again, I personally believe you can have all the thoughts of christianity, without the label. You don’t need a church to believe what you want. But keep it private, and keep an open mind, because some things – if not everything – you believe to be the truth just may not be correct. That’s all. Look at the KKK – they pass on those beliefs to their kids with a passion, and often do so by quoting the bible, interpreting it the way they think is correct – that Adam and Eve were white and therefore dominant and as god intended. Those are beliefs that shouldn’t be passed on. If you wanna pass on beliefs of hope and peace, I welcome that. But to kill for it? To go to war for it? That contradicts itself. Good beliefs don’t have to be tied to a religion.

Two things I’ll point out that you assumed of me… “you have the right to hate god and deny that he exists” and “We are all children of god and you can deny that”. When did I say I hate god? I frown upon religion, and there’s a difference. I said I don’t think anyone knows who or god is or was. Could be living, could be the energy found in everything, may have been living once but no more, could have simply been an event like the Big Bang, could be matter, could be an 84-headed panda for all we know. To me, the term “God” means “Creator” – and I openly say that obviously the universe and all that’s in it was created somehow. Whether by accident, or by intelligent design. So whatever that creation was, whatever that spark that started it all, that’s what I believe to be closest to a god. Life is complex, beautiful, and amazing. And I love it. But unless a god actually came to me and told me what it expects, what it wants, what the rules of life are, I can’t feel obligated to owe anything if I don’t know what’s expected of me. So I live my life asking questions, hoping we’ll find a definitive answer someday. I give to the poor, I donate to charity, I help fund schools, I do many great deeds, because it’s what I believe. But I don’t need an established religion with its rules and requests to do these things. I don’t say to give up what you believe on the spot, but I propose that people do it without labels or organizations. I am very christian-like in my good deeds, but without the label. You can do good things, have hope, and help others without pledging loyalty to a group that benefits from controlling you, and that’s what I believe religious institutes to be. There’s too much corruption in religion to ever convince me to join their cause, when I can do the same good deeds on my own. I don’t deny that we were created, but I do keep an open mind as to how we were created, because there is no definitive answer. I don’t deny, because I can’t deny what I don’t know.

You said, “Don't you dare criticize me for believing or try to tell others that god does not exist. You go into your dark corner and believe that we're all just going to die because science cannot explain god to you…” I never criticized you for believing god exists, and I don’t know how many times I hafta say that. I believe in freedom to believe what you want. But don’t push those beliefs onto me. I don’t question or doubt some kind of creator or creation (“god”, as I just said, but I may doubt whether Jesus ever existed, whether miracles were actually performed, whether Mary was a virgin, whether your god is THE God. I don’t say these things out of blasphemy, though people are quick to use that word instead of trying to explain things to me. I simply ask questions, and ask if things make sense. I never said science can’t explain god to me… That’s actually my whole point if you were open-minded and understood what I was saying. My whole point is that if we close off our minds, and say that we can never doubt or ask questions, we will never allow science TO prove god exists. Churches and religions always want to shut down any scientific studies that may threaten their foundations. Why is that? Don’t we want to know the truth? You may be right, you may be wrong. But we owe it ourselves to know for sure, and if we halt science in fear of committing blasphemy, then we allow ourselves to be sheep led by religious leaders. When did I ever say “oh poor us, we’re all going to die in a dark corner, lonely and scared, with no hope of an afterlife?” I told you I’m agnostic, not atheist… you really seem to be having a hard time understanding the difference between the two. Atheists believe there is no God, period. Never was, never will be. The end is the end. Agnostic means I believe there’s an explanation, something out there that happened, and that there may be something afterwards, but I don’t claim to have any answers or any particular concrete point of view. I’m open to explanations, questions, science, facts, hypothesis, and doubt. I don’t parade myself as a particular label claiming to know everything, because no one knows for sure. Every religion has a holy book that was edited and edited until it became the final version you follow, and it tells you what to believe, but based on faith. You can believe it if you want, but don’t claim that it is the one and only truth and I’m doomed if I don’t follow you. You don’t know if that’s the case.

Going back to the topic of atheist versus agnostic… You called me “agnostic atheist” because I “apparently don't believe in god at all”… Again, can’t say it enough, never said that. I said I don’t claim to know or that we ever will know. I keep an open mind… That’s what agnostic means. I have my theories, but I keep them personal, and don’t advertise them on billboards or sell books, jewelry, and statues based on an icon I market to the masses, nor do I make a holiday out of it. Furthermore, it is not even possible to be “agnostic atheist” – that doesn’t even make sense. I can’t even understand that concept. You’re one or the other. You believe something is possible, or you defy all possibilities. They are clearly opposites of each other.

I’d also like to point out your use of the word “fucking”… I think I have maintained a professional attitude, even if blunt at times, and never resorted to name-calling or swearing. This is a piece of art for crying out loud. People have different views. Let it be. You’re so worked up about it. It’s art bro. Art. I’m open to constructive criticism, but not potty-mouth immature rants. I did not belittle you, not intentionally at least, but rather it was you who intentionally belittled me by those two simple words “Atheist Bastard”. I’m just an artist, asking questions and interpreting a simple song. I don’t think anyone came along to Picasso’s house and shouted obscenities at him for thinking differently than other artists of his time. It’s art, enjoy it. And if you don’t, move on. Just move on. I shouldn’t have to apologize for art, nor will I. But at least I’m actually trying, all you seem to post are screenshots stolen from IGN and Gamespot. That’s not what Deviant Art is for. That’s what IGN and Gamespot are for.

I never said you were “a backwards people and society”… You’re twisting my words. I simply am saying keep an open mind. People locked up Copernicus for not following the mass beliefs of his time, and he ended up being right after all. He asked questions, he kept an open mind. Many scientists were punished or harassed for questioning so-called facts, religious or otherwise. And many proved themselves in the end and changed the course of history. I didn’t say christians were backwards people, I said closed-minded people slow down the progression of discovering new things. You can be christian, but with an open-mind. Ask questions is all. That comment had nothing to do with your religion, and everything to do with simply keeping an open mind. But you failed to take the time once again to understand the ideas I’m conveying. Instead, like so many others, you took it as a personal assault against your religion. So defensive, and all I’m doing is proposing questions.

If your Satan can deceive you as easily as the bible teaches, maybe he already has. Maybe everything you’re already following is not the teachings of god, but rather of Satan. Maybe this Jesus guy was really Satan, fooling everyone into following him. Afterall, isn’t that what he’s supposed to do in the future, trick everyone into thinking he’s a savior when in fact he’s the anti-christ in disguise? Well, maybe that already happened. But if you don’t ask questions, if you aren’t allowed to ask for explanations, and you simply brush everything off as “well, there’s always a plan, so never question it”… that’s a lazy, scary answer. Scary ‘cause I don’t want to follow beliefs that I’m told to obey without a doubt. If you’re so sure of something, why would you be afraid if I ask for assurance?

People are scared of what they don’t know. No one wants to die and cease to exist. But there IS a chance of that happening. I’m not atheist, but because I don’t rule out any possibility, I can’t rule out the “no possibility” possibility. Since science says energy can’t be created nor destroyed, and energy is what makes life “life,” and lack of energy is what makes death “death”, then that energy must go somewhere if it’s not destroyed upon death. Heaven? Maybe, in a sense, if not literal. Reincarnated or recycled? Maybe. I don’t know. But I don’t claim to know. But people are scared of uncertainty, so they want answers and hope, even if it’s not concrete fact, it’s just the chance of hope that keeps them going. Anything wrong with that? Absolutely not, have hope that there will be a paradise after you die. Do good things on this planet to earn a possible end-reward. But don’t do bad things in the name of religion, because that contradicts itself and would most likely guarantee you a spot in hell if that’s what you believe. Don’t argue, fight, and kill over that idea, because you might be wrong. I don’t know, you don’t know, so don’t force it onto someone else. And don’t allow yourself to be so gullible and blinded by uncertain hope that you pass up the opportunity to discover what may actually be a different truth.

And lastly, I never tried to envelop you in darkness. What, am I the anti-christ all the sudden ‘cause I don’t believe what you believe? I mean, what does that mean? Because I say I don’t commit myself to any particular beliefs, that I don’t claim to know the answers, that means I’m a dark, evil soul trying to spread the plague across the world? I never said I worship your Satan. I think the person who is being belittled here is me, not you. I don’t resort to assumptions, nor name calling, nor absurd insults and accusations. I’m lookin’ around, and my room’s brightly lit. I’m a cheerful, fun guy to hang out with. Nothing dark about me. Quit being so negative, bro.

You ask me to think about what you’ve said to me. I do everyday. You’re not the first to argue those very points – it’s almost like every religious person is given the same book of things to counter with instead of giving actual constructive answers. That was the point of the art. I was merely thinking about these issues, and asking why or why not. That’s all. So I ask you to think about it as well, that’s all. Simple. I don’t believe I ever tried to “convince someone else who isn't like you that god doesn't exist” or “have your agnosticism and your atheism and try to shove it down people's throats”. Did I come to your page and post my art piece? No. You, however, came to MY page, and felt the need to shove your beliefs down my throat with those two little words. I never claimed any belief whatsoever through this art piece, so I’m confused why you feel threatened by it, or think I’m using it to convince people god doesn’t exist. I think I’ve worn out the point I’ve been making all along is I’m simply asking questions, and am always met with arguments like yours that provide no answers, no explanations, no solid debate. I want debate. I want discussion. I want a meeting of minds. I love that. That’s how progress is made, by people coming together and discussing things. But first you have to be open-minded. I don’t see how I’m shoving anything down anyone’s throat when I have said I don’t know how many times that I don’t KNOW what I believe! It’s like trying to feed a million people but you don’t have any food. I don’t claim to have concrete ideas, so I have none to force upon you. I’m simply. asking. questions. And wondering if our future is a bright future, or a dark apocalypse that we bring upon ourselves through war, religion, and politics.

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JLMC In reply to Desidus [2009-06-15 04:08:27 +0000 UTC]

Ok ok I get it, you didn't need to write the Fuckin DaVinci code to tell a couple things alright, for one thing these are the kind of topics, that need to be discussed, but you put up that art as a point of view, I avoid putting up art like that,so that I don't ofend anyone, I've just had alot of atheists and liberals put me down and shit, because Im "Religious" or "Republican" and I'm sorry about what I said. I think I have the right to be a little upset the day my Girlfriend broke up with me ok? But you seem to be genuinely attached to your views and beliefs. Im a guy who asked alot of those where is god questions, cause life has pretty much fucked me over for the past 15 years, and I get emotional and pissed about it sometimes. Im not saying you can't believe what you want, but People that don't think that anyone's there it makes me sad, so very sad. I just don't want us all to be so different, Different beliefs and religions have started every conflict large or small in human history. But it is human nature, and it is human nature to question, and there is nothing wrong with that. Hell I do it all the time. But I also don't appreciate you calling my existance sad, because I honor all those who went before us and died so that we may be having this conversation here today. You can have your religion and beliefs even if I don't agree with them, but never in any way, shape, or form, dishonor or put down the men and women in uniform. I am not saying that that is indeed what you did, but at least for future reference, don't. Im open to discussion of politics, not religion. I am open to discussion of current events, not religion. I am also open to discussions of life, and other things. I am just trying to find a good place in this world like you. Thats all it is. all it is.

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Desidus In reply to Desidus [2009-06-13 08:32:27 +0000 UTC]

Stupid auto-convert-text-to-smiley feature. Ignore the smiley's, they were parentheses and whatnot that automatically converted to smileys once I clicked "send". They're not supposed to be there.

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Desidus In reply to blackboard-ofnight [2009-03-28 22:15:21 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

And yes, it's a very powerful, amazing song. Good luck with your film!

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