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Artigas — Turin Turambar and the Dragon Helm
Published: 2014-06-05 16:06:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 27975; Favourites: 380; Downloads: 146
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This is Turin by the time he spent at Amon Rûdh, leading the bandits.
It was inspired by the great work of my friend Turner Mohan, check it out, it is amazing: turnermohan.deviantart.com/jou…
I consider him the best Tolkien Artist of the new generation, his ability with the concepts itself is really impressive.
We had many backs and forths about Tolkien related concept art, and this really fed up my imagination. I just cannot help but try and explore the idea myself.
For this design I had some points in mind:
Turin is depicted as a really tall and strong man, even as the strongest, and his battle prowess is almost unequalled. So for me he is like the Middle Earth Conan. I made him tall and broad shouldered, with big and powerful hands, and a ready and menacing resting pose. Just like a Tiger, even when resting you can feel the power and aggression potential of the creature. I tried to convey that with his pose here.
Also, I think of the first men as “refined barbarians” at least in appearance. This is why I chose the Anglo-Saxon style as my basis for developing his gear. Northern and powerful warriors just like the Edain from house of Hador.
The blue dragon tattoos in his arms, albeit never mentioned in the books, are something that I see as totally possible, a testament to his battle deeds and Edain heritage, both things this proud individual was never shy to flaunt. I imagine him living among the elves holding his head high, sporting a beard and his tattoos as warlike sign of pride. I see him just like that, a trouble waiting to happen.
His gear is as famous as the owner, and I expanded it a little bit.
You can see the Dragon Helm, the infamous sword Gurthang, an Elven maille hauberk, a shield and also a brass decorated Dwarven Seax (you can’t get any better weapon for close combat than that dwarven blade). He wear an elven cloak and a wolf pelt over it ( a barbaric and surely human sign of battle prowess) and also some human jewels like a Tork from Haleth's House (in his arm) and a ring and cape pin. His clothes too are of human origin.
For the Helmet I had in mind the key aspects that we have from the books: Grey steel etched in gold, a hideous mask to look upon, a visor to protect the eyes from flames, a dragon shaped crest in mockery of Glaurung and an exceptionally heavy weight (even for a dwarven piece).
I also added the crown because this helmet once belonged to no one else than Azaghâl, the great dwarven king. It was given as a token of gratitude in the field, so I see it as an actual battle piece, not a ceremonial one. Thus the helmet is well adorned but not excessively, and is sturdy and functional.
By using scales, spikes and sharp angles I intended to bring up the dragon aspect to the design.
The mask is shaped as a bearded face and the mustache, mouth and braided beard plates all together form a Bevor. There is an under Coif made of scales that is shaped in the likeness of a beard.
The design was much inspired by Turner’s latest dwarven designs, but also from my old concepts of various dwarven helmets that you can find in my gallery.
For the sword, Gurthang, which was forged of metheoric iron, I imagine a simple and straight sword, with some hints of floral design and an overall viking sword style. Tolkien gives us a very strong Norse Myth vibe on his works, so you can bet he imagined his swords as one handed Viking swords, but I simply cannot help but imagine elven swords jus as Glamdring from the movies: straight slender and pointy elegant bastard swords. This is a late medieval design (the longsword) but it is just a perfect match for the versatile and agile elven fighting style. A sharp but lightweight blade that can be used with one or two hands, to stab or cut, is just the perfect thing for the tall and fast elves.
In my design it is a very pointy almost spike like sword, to evoke the destiny of the blade: to stab Glaurung to death and later its own master, Turin.
In my mind, the blade is somewhat simple in design, as I perceive its creator, Eöl, as a very straight forward individual with nihilistic inclinations so a dark deadly and simple blade suits him very well.
Eöl was one of the greatest Arda smiths of all the times, and I wanted to show that in another way than simply a fancy blade design and abundance of decorations. I imagine that a masterful balanced blade, made of a rare and difficult to work metal, using advanced technologies like Wootz steel (pattern folded, a technology in which Vikings excel) and also masterfully heat treated, would do the trick. In my mind the different metals in the wootz actually show a recognizable image in the pattern like vines, something that just a master like Eöl would be able to accomplish. It is subtle too, just like the Hamon the bade shows, from the heat treatment.
This one is a visual hint to the almost impossible sharpness most people attribute to Japanese blades, and is exactly the kind of exotic and minimalistic visual trait you will find in that sword.
Unfortunately I was not able to show those minute details in this piece, because of the size and media. Maybe in the future, Angalchel/Gurthang will have its own drawing.
The shape of the pommel is heavily reminiscent of those of Viking swords. I did this inpired in a concept that was introduced by Turner Mohan: In this awesome piece here: turnermohan.deviantart.com/art…
he talk about the elven pointed shoes being a fashion that survived the ages in both medieval times and later in fairy tales. I like this idea, that the elves influenced most of the human culture that was modified and adapted over the centuries until the original idea was forgotten.
For my sword, I imagine Eöl having this trademark of inserting floral designs in his weapons (being a forest dweller) and famous as he were this rapidly turned into a kind o fashion among weapon smiths. Later the less skilled human tried to replicate the flower-button pommel and ended up with something far simpler. Even later this design evolved on itself, the original elven style completely forgotten, ending up with our well known Viking styled sword pommel.
The elven maille he probably got from Thingol’s armory. He chooses a black steel maille, because he is a man of a sinister mood and it just fits him well. The cut of the Hauberk is exotic and not very well suited for horse riding, and is made of very tiny rings, an elven specialty. Such a hauberk can be rolled into a ball not much larger than a man´s fist.
The hauberk is also decorated with silver stars, a subject of reverence to the Eldars of the old.
My equipment of choice for this one was:
-Sakura Koi Watercolours
-Noodler’s Ahab Pen and Ink
-And a crappy piece of paper that ruined most of the painting.
-Of course, some Photoshop retouches.
For the next ones, I intend to have my take on Glaurung, Azaghãl, the dragon helm in detail, some more dwarven designs and a helmetless Turin. I also plan to do the scene in which Azaghal wounds Glaurung with a knife. I have a plausible explanation on how it could have be done.
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Comments: 50
you should just try to draw a viking nobleman i think it would be awesome
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Do or do not. There is no try
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This is a fabulous rendition of Turin. It's funny that after so much back-and-forth you and Turner got in opposing direction regarding the Dragonhelm : Turner made it scary but beautiful while yours is certainly the "hideouest" (!) dwarven helmet you ever did. I like both ideas but I tend to prefer yours since it conveys better the heaviness of the helmet (that I see as a general thing with the Dwarves related to their sturdy body-structure and their stiff necks). I bet when they are doing mails and helmets (like in Doriath) or swords and knives for Elves and Men they adapt their weight to their future owner but here this one was apparently not adapted to it, that's why I think it was given directly during the battle, or just after it.
Your text makes me think about how Turin's appearance could have evolved. Like Tuor and Aragorn he was raised among Elves and like the latter he may have been raised as a little Elf-lord (his realy story really look alike to Aragorn's : fighting in the borders and being called by Thingol/Elrond to receive is fathers heirloom, etc.). But I don't see him as trying to appear much different from an Elf at that time, I think he would have loved to be an Elf himself, and may be fantasized he could appear as such since he was one of the most beautiful Men that ever lived (may be the most beautiful : I don't remember what Tolkien said on that subject). After all he apparently felt abandonned by his mother and father and pretty much by mankind. But Saeros' mocking brought him back to that reality : he will allways be different (and bearded when not shaven lol).
Now the tatoos you draw I could imagine as something he could have learned among the Gaurwaith : it's the first time he lived among Men as an adult and a period during which he probably felt like re-connecting whith his culture. Even if it's something done only by the Halethrim, his father, who lived his youth among that people, could have worn such tatoos as well. And I'm sure there were all kind of Edain among the Gaurwaith (even some easterlings apparently).
However he won't have Gurthang allready since at that time Beleg used it. But this is more an "ideal" plate of him so it doesn't matter. And he could wore the exact same clothing in Brethil to confront the Worm.
About the sword by the way I hear your concerns :
" Tolkien gives us a very strong Norse Myth vibe on his works, so you can bet he imagined his swords as one handed Viking swords, but I simply cannot help but imagine elven swords jus as Glamdring from the movies : straight slender and pointy elegant bastard swords. This is a late medieval design (the longsword) but it is just a perfect match for the versatile and agile elven fighting style. "
You'll be relieved to know that the swords of the Noldor are said to be "long and terrible" and that Narsil (forged by the Dwarf Telchar) and Gurthang (forged by the Sinda Eöl who learned many things from the Dwarves) are both used both-handed at some point in the story making me think than most of Tolkien's swords are bastard-swords.
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Well thanks for the preference, it's not every day that one prefers mine over a Turner's one. He is a gifted artist, and this is a very huge compliment.
I really share the same point of view here. To me the Dwarves make very distinct pieces for either themselves and everyone else. And the idea that the helm was given in the field was my main inspiration and to me it makes the gift even more amazing as a token of gratitude. I can picture Azaghâl removing it from his sweaty hairy hed and giving this hideous piece of master craftsmanship to a rather confused elven lord
Thanks for your defense on the tattoo subject. I really think they fit in with Turin's Nordic might. I Imagine him getting them among the bandits.
“However he won't have Gurthang already since at that time Beleg used it. But this is more an "ideal" plate of him so it doesn't matter. And he could wore the exact same clothing in Brethil to confront the Worm.” Well that was a plain mistake that even Howe incurred in. I was aware of it later and commented here somewhere. You got keen eyes my friend.
About the high elven swords I just have to say thanks! You gave me reasons to be at peace with my bastard sword style that I have in my mind eye for so many years! I did not know any of it! Thanks bro.
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Yes Turner is a gifted artist (but so are you) and I have to answer quite similarly : it is not everyday that I prefer one's art over his.
Haha I can imagine the scene with Madehros "the Tall" taking the helm from the hands of what looks like an extremly old man (with a really long beard but I don't think our red-haired friend cares) who is less than half his size, putting it on his head and then trying not to fall under the weight. The late story of the helm passed from Azaghâl to Madehros, from Maedhros to Fingon and from Fingon to Hador, sounds like a precious gift that nobody really wants and knows what to do with.
About tatoos I thougt : Turin is a lot like a teenager and Beleriand would be kind of boring for a teenager. There is no drug (pipeweed wasn't brought from Numenor yet) and no music that your parents won't like (either rock n' roll, metal, japanese pop or rap : non exist in Middle-Earth and the most badass instrument seem to be... the harp)... and anyway Turin is not with his parents anymore. Everyone seems to be fine with drinking wine and liquor or growing his hair. So all he has to do to externalize his anger is being a runaway and getting tatoos.
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Hello my old friend.
I am back in the saddle after a damn long time.
It is a delight to see your comment even after so long.
I hope you are doing fine.
Cheers
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Thanks my friend. I wish you the same.
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et tu Elrondperedhel?
that said, the dragon helm, for all the praise that is heaped upon it, does indeed seem like the gift nobody wants; maedhros, fingon, and hurin all pass it on, acknowledging it as an article of surpassing workmanship while not wanting to wear it themselves.
about the tattoos (something i've contested artigas on, mainly on the grounds that tolkien himself would likely have not favored tattoos, nor found them appropriate for the "most beautiful" (yes it's in the text) of men of the eldar days) i've kind of come around to them, as both something the edain would have experimented with (see my take on haleth) and turin personally, though i agree with your assessment that such a body modification could have come about in turin's time among the outlaws; turin seems to me like the kind of guy who, psychologically - this is not to indict or make judgements of tattooed people today, living in a world where tattoos are rather common - would be a prime candidate for tattooing; he doesnt much care for his own "elven beauty" and seems like the kind of quy who would seek to reinvent himself many times in the course of his life (as evidenced in the text by his frequent changing of names) I can imagine him going through many lengths/styles of hair and facial hair between the ages of twenty and thirty-five, seeking (and constantly failing) to somehow get away from the doom that seems to be hanging over his life and identity as the son of Hurin. So yeah, marking his (naturally perfect, no alteration required) body as an attempt to assert himself seems very well in keeping with his rash and self-evading character. I agree with artigas' notion that he would, as a man, bear himself as such proudly among the hunters and border-wards of thingol (him being - a point that I think is often overlooked - the rightful king of men (or atleast of their senior-most house, beor's being destroyed except for beren, who's descendants are bound up with the elves)) but the tattoos seem most justifiable as a later addition, administered by one of the gaurwaith as a symbol of both gang-membership and racial pride (as tattoos often are, even today)
also, tattoos (and tolkien's likely disapproval of such a thing) would dovetail nicely with tolkien's disapproval of many aspects of early men (and specifically turin's life and choices) as fundamentally self-willed, heathen and unenlightened, a thing that never occurred to me (or at least not so pointedly) until a recent reading of this very well written article on 'the children of hurin' pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/12/…
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You sum up beautifully my own thougts on these subjects ! (though "summing up" is not the right verb since you considerably expanded my thinking).
I see what you mean by the gap between Elven and Dwarf art in your/Artigas'/Lee's rendering of them. May be Lee's earlier work were closer of Tolkien's idea but it looks too much west-european medieval to me and lacks identity. It's important to keep from doing the every-single-dwarven-thing-is-angular thing too much (remembering that Dwarves have round shields for example) even if it's a great concept visually. Mixing it with the jewish inspiration you gave your Dwarves recently can be a way to give them a firm identity without overly doing it.
The article was definitely worth reading. I often feel like being an atheist with no christian education and never reading the Bible (I tried once but it takes time and is not such a pleasant lecture) makes me miss some aspects of Tolkien's work. Like you that aspect was present in my mind but not as clearly as this guy put it.
That being said my love for a conservative bigot was a big help in opening my mind on conservatives and bigots ! 
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Out of curiosity Master Artigas, might one please ask how you imagine Heroes of the Second Age and the Third Age differing from those of the First Age, in terms of appearance and accoutrement?
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Well, this one is a HUGE question.
I'm afraid I don't have a very solid opinion about it given that I'm still working on the whole design thing and it was only recently that I started to give Tolkien a more dedicated approach.
But as an answer I can give you this:
I think that it is important to respect Tolkien's idea that everything in the past was better and bigger than in the latter ages. But we can give this point many interpretations. To me being better doesn't mean you put it in reverse time and it is ok, like for example in the past they had late medieval tech like plate armor and by the third age they just have mail or something like this. I choose to anchor the designs on our own historical time line because it gives immediate clear reading given we are familiar with the historical order. For instance, something that resembles Greeks or Romans naturally comes before something that resembles a Landschneckt. I like to use this approach to start my designs. But I also like to expand the influences to the whole world not just Europe and notice that this is not a rock hard rule, and I tend to mix things up a bit.
So for the first age heroes I tend to think of a more “powered up” version of the archaic historical counterparts and for the 2nd and 3rd ages I “downgrade” Later gear and clothing to match this idea.
A little tweak here and there and you have your final design.
So in simple terms: 1st age= more primitive and exotic but highly advanced in the same time. Latter ages, more familiar stuff and a moderated attitude towards rare metals and techniques for example.
Did I managed to give you a satisfying answer? Please let me know.
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I think you make an excellent point Master Artigas - it makes a lot of sense to honour the prevailing theme that Middle Earth is diminished in many ways over the long ages of wasting War against the Dark Lords (and that a decline in the crafts is visible to some degree at least) by depicting advances in technology, but a gradual decline in ornamentation and other technically-superfluous yet visually-appealing refinements of craft.
Its a nice way of showing that while the Free Peoples are gaining in knowledge (and therefore in technology) they are losing something of the Joy in making that drove them to the highest peaks of their craftsmanship and are willing to accept a less glorious, yet equally-practical 'munition' style of armour.
One imagines that their work is still far from purely functionalist in concept and execution, but it makes sense that much of the Glory has gone out of War-Gear by the Third Age of the Sun as hopes of any final victory seem more and more remote after it is revealed that even The Last Alliance was unable to scotch the Shadow in the East for all time …
I also admire your decision to incorporate elements from non-Nordic cultures in your designs, as it not only helps distinguish your own designs from those of other artists but such a wealth of influences also helps make Middle Earth seem BIGGER somehow.
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Thaks for your kind words my friend, they mean a lot!
Well, saying is one thing, doing is a completely different beast. Let's see how well I would do it
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So far as I can see you do it VERY Well already and are only likely to get even better with experience!
May I please ask if you have any particular pieces of work in the pipeline?
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Many and none. I did not decide myself yet. But it would be more dwarves probably. I'm still on the mood so why not right? What do you say? Any particular suggestions?
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Master Artigas, I am very grateful that you have accorded me the privilege of making a suggestion; I must warn you that being a keen admirer of art and no artist myself, I have quite a number of concepts lurking in the back of my mind which have been awaiting such a chance as you have offered me - so I shall offer a number of possible ideas and hope that you like at least one of them!
- Having seen THE BATTLE OF THE FIVE ARMIES only yesterday, it occurs to me that it would be intriguing to see a depiction of King Dain Ironfoot and his opposite number King Brand (son of Bain, son of Bard) preparing to battle the Northern Assault of Sauron's forces during The War of the Ring; I must admit that I would love to see your rendition of the last great Dwarf-King of the Third Age and also a representative of the most Dwarf-influenced Human Kingdom that we are aware of (a portrait made more poignant for those that known that the collaboration of these two great friends will end in Victory and Death for both of them).
- Alternatively it might be a potentially interesting challenge to depict Celebrimbor, Dwarf-Friend and Last of Feanor's line (not to mention the Ring-Maker who crafted the Three, The Seven and the Nine) with his great friend Narvi (between them they made the Gates of Moria); I imagine that there might be some interest to be found in the challenge of depicting a Dwarf of Moria during its Age of Glory alongside an Elf from the Dwarf-Friendly realm of Hollin (just how DOES one mix Elvish and Dwarvish influences in a design without them clashing horribly?).
-It also occurs to me that the challenge of designing an illustration of Durin, Father of the Longbeards (or one of his namesake descendants) might be a fine one; just how on Earth does one evoke the grandeur of such an individual and the near-religious awe in which he is held?
I hope that at least one of these ideas catches your interest, but if none do then please let me know and I shall try to come up with something better.
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I like all the ideas but I have to say that for the moment Celebrimbor and specially Durin are out of my reach. It's too scary to take on those giants.
Anyway I like the idea of an aged Dain, and you can expect something in that regard soon. You know, I'm still going full dwarven for the time. I'm currently working on a big piece, this is Azaghal again, so thanks for your valuable contributions and stay tuned for more Arda stuff
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I would not dare miss the chance to see more of your work!
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Thank you very much my friend. It is a huge job trying to depict such a great character!
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I can imagine something of the cocktail of aspiration, inspiration and raw fear that your own personal take on an Iconic character from a book that stands as one of the pillars of a genre might not QUITE live up to your hopes for it which must lurk in the background of any attempt to illustrate the likes of Turin Turambar.
I write a bit, you see and STILL have kittens at the prospect of posting my work in public despite being a happy amateur.
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Yeah a huge fear indeed but a challenge that i gladly take because it isn't about the result, it is about the process. I learn a lot, I have nice new ideas and I force myself to grow.
Still, the results ofthen aren't quite what I expect and I get a little disappointed with myself, wich in turn makes me want to go even further and try again, and that is good.
Art is just like this, it is a neverending process that is rough and hard but quite enjoyable
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Again, I know what you mean - I feel much the same after posting some piece of fiction (on another Forum; I'm not confident enough on deviantArt to post any of my own ideas rather than posting my compliments and comments relating to the excellent work of others).
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Well I’m quite curious about your art now. Do you mind sharing something? What do you do? Tolkien related stuff?
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I do not actually draw, but rather I write bits and pieces of fiction to help flesh out a friends Settings over on the appropriate Atomic Think Tank forum (technically the Ronin Army forum these days but I prefer the old name); If you'd still like to take a look I'd be happy to post some links, but I must warn you that there is rather a lot to look through (at last count our combined contributions total something like 700 pages, more or less) and its mostly Superheroes.
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I saw the links in the other post. I'll sure take a look!
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Thank you for taking the time to do so!
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What an incredible take on Turin! Very well done.
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I'm really filled with admiration of this Turin! A lot of thought went into EVERY small detail, you made a big work. This design is combination of perfect knowledge of historical costume -armour -weapon and imagination.
maybe his helmet looks so '' dwarfish" for my view, but thats also fantastical design
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I am feeling flattered beyond words as I read your comment. You are one of my favorite Tolkien artists of all and to know my Turin pleases you is a huge delight.
I love to receive a comment from fellow artists like you that have the knowledge to identify the amount of work we put in each piece. It was indeed a lot of research and work, so I am really happy it shows.
I am very curious about your opinion about the Dragon Helm itself. I know that in your design it is very smooth and polished, with a very human-like mask. You say my design look Dwarvish and that was my intent since In my view it is the way it should be, given it was made by Telchar, the greatest Dwarf smith, to his king Azaghâl. So, to me it seems just natural that it looks dwarvish
But there are artists that think different. Allan Lee himself, and our mutual good friend Turner Mohan. In his opinion the helm was probably modified later by the Elves that had it or even later by the Men of House Hador.
Anyway, I am interested in your opinion and view on this, you are a veteran artist and Tolkien student so your point of view worth a lot.
Thanks for dropping this lovely comment on my page, it made my day.
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My Fine Sir, you're totally correct here, even though I'm not going to change my design 
And most of all, I'm totally thrilled about the amount of research you've performed before you drew the design of yours. I've seen your graphics, it's plain amazing!
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My dear lady, it is unthinkable to propose that you should change your design in any way. It will be a crime. Yours is amazing in it's own regard, your style is very classical and classics use a lot of poetical license in its works. If you think about it, the classical art was not accurate when depicting Romans for example, or the Jewish people or anything from other countries and eras. And it was not out of ignorance. It is a style. A line of thought. Your work is uniform and smooth, all of it is more or less in the same style, your own style. Your focus is in the beauty of the image itself, not necessarily on literal details. My art is less in the graphics department and more in the concept field. Different approaches with different beauty. I love those differences and it makes the art richer.
Besides your designs are awesome!
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What can I say, I enjoy collecting Turin pictures. I love the wealth of detail in the portrait, the golden helm in its glory, and the beautiful utility of Gurthang.
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Thank you man! I put a HUGE amount of effort on this design, so it pleases me a lot that you like it as it come up. Most of the inspiration came from our friend Turner Mohan, and it is fair to say that some of his inspiration came from you and other supporters, that give so much feedback, critiques and ideas, so I guess I have to thank you for that cross influencing
I was reading Sons of Hurin Lately and I came up with a very unexpected and mesmerizing conclusion about Turin's outfit and gear: He never wore the Dragon helm and brandished the famous Gurthang at the same time! Even in the book cover you see him using both side by side, and I was misled by this also, but reading carefully you can see that he lost the helm forever when captured by the orcs. To this point he wore the helm but used an unnamed sword from Thingol's armory. The one who were carrying Gurthang was his rescuer and friend, Beleg. So after killing Beleg he carried the sword but not the helmet. Later by the time of the raid at Nargothrond it is said in the books that he wore a Dwarven MASK (not a helmet) that he picked from Nargothrond's armory together with a Dwarven suit of Maille. The mask is said to be completely golden and terrifying. It is accounted that he withstood the Dragon's fire better than any other thanks to the Mask. Again, a mask, not a helmet. From this point on he carryied the sword, but no word was ever said again about the Dragon Helm of Dor Lomin.
I think I found a Long Ignored “detail” that makes perfect sense with the flow of the story, and that I intend to bring to light with a drawing that I am working on. Isn't that interesting? The more you dig, the more Tolkien delivers!
So that's it, soon you will have another Turin for your collection, one with Gurthang and a golden Dwarven Mask.
Thanks for dropping by, I hope to see you again.
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It's true, Tolkien is a friend to detail-obsessed artists, even if he exasperates them at times.
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Yeah, even if it is not written down it is very clear now that the Helmet wasn't seen after that. Me, personally, I like to think Turin was not wearing the helm when the assault happened, and that the Orcs being so hasty as they were, never found it and that later Mîm, that little bugger, took it and added it to his personal hoard inside that mysterious locked door of his, where it sits in the dark until the end of time.
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ps that link was a dead end, this one works imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x…
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this ones really great man, the amount of both thought and work you put into it really shows
for one, that's a really cool take on the dragon helm, which i think is supposed to be about two hundred years old by the time it comes down to turin (did dwarves live longer back then or something?) and i can see it being possibly the father (or maybe just the crowning example) of this whole particular school of dwarven helmets built for dragon fighting. the "crown" feeling of it is great, more samurai, overall, than vikingish (the way the cheek plates flare out at the back is a nice touch, it's very "alpha," like how those big male orangutans have those huge, blown-out faces to give them a look of added size and agression, really good for a king's helmet) i also like the flaring out teeth, which i see carries over in the teeth of glaurung aswell, but i think the dragon itself is a little too oriental temple-lion looking, not quite there yet though i really like the heaviness of the ornament, and of the whole thing; the dragon-helm is remarked a few times as being too heavy (and even too large) for most men or elves which, firstly, seems to be one of tolkien's very few actual indications of dwarven proportions, and secondly, it just "works" as a mental image and seems believable that dwarves with their short sturdy necks and all would be able to support heavy, proud helmets better than taller folk. it looks like it was made for a dwarf here, which is cool tha you could pull that off despite it being worn by a man.
as for the rest of turin, i like that mail shirt alot; my theory on elven maille (and i'm going to go into this in more detail in my response to your comment on glorfindel and ecthelion) is that, while roughly conforming to the "viking-era" cut you'd see in man made maille armors (certainly of this time) elven armor is just miles ahead of human work in terms of little things, and conforms to the wearer much better. this one catches that nicely, and i like the gems inset alot for elven maille, though turin, given his choice from among thingol's armories, might go for a more grim, plain black maille shirt (as you mention he's a pretty grim, surly guy)
the sword I think owes a little too much to movie-glamdring, i loved that design (and narsil's) but in general, despite the obvious inclination toward "classic" high-medieval bastard swords, I'm personally starting to come around to trying to make tolkien's swords more vikingish, atleast in their general form, somehow i get the feeling that might be closer to his intent (which is something i try to intuit while making designs) but again that's my oppinion, and as you remarked when you get down to this sort of stuff you really are talking about reading between the lines, inwhich everyone can have there own oppinion. i like the idea of a floral pommel for gurthang, perhaps more stylized than figurative, and how that would infuence designs thousands of years later. the visible wootz folding also is a great idea, one that would usually go under my radar when doing a drawing simply because it's not the kind of thing you can really put in a drawing, but as a mental image it's great. I do picture anglachel/gurthang as a very elegant but also fierce and kind of nasty weapon. the dwarven seax-knife is a good touch aswell, and well executed, and I'm very fond of your overall impression of turin's character; the men of the first age (and i touch on this somewhat in my remarks on haleth) are basically a barbarian-level people, they've been brought up (maybe to quickily for their own good) by interacting with the eldar, but they are sort of these proud, fearsome wild beasts, as speaking people go; they're not really good at making anything, they're not very well learned (having only a few short decades of life inwhich to even aquire knowledge) but they have this primitive heart and virility and in-the-moment courage to them as a species that it seems elves are kind of amazed by (it's not that hard to see why elven women go for them over all these refined, patient, wise maeglins and daerons and gwindors) and yeah i can see turin bearing himself proudly (perhaps too much so) among the elves of doriath, wearing a beard, never asking for any favors, and not taking any shit. tatoos on the edain is something I'm a little hesitant about (i'm always hesitant about tatoos in tolkien's world, and in historical films aswell, and i think that's largely because i believe we overestimate how prevalent they were in ancient cultures becuase of how prevalent they're becoming in our current culture) but I cant say it doesnt work for the men of the first age.
as an unsolicited technical criticism, i think the figure is a bit stiff, i agree with your idea of turin as this tall, broad-shouldered, powerful man, but i think maybe too much effort was put into asserting that visually, the figure doesnt quite flow as much as I'd ideally like it too, it's a bit rigid. also, much to the obvious frustration of film designers (which is why in movies you always get these ridiculously blown out shoulder pauldrons which seem to be trying to make men in armor look like NFL linebackers) no one looks particularly broad-shouldered in chainmaille (it's my crazy theory that a good amount of the hate leveled at ian whyte fr not being "mountain-y" enough is actually due to the simple lack of pauldrons www.harikadizi1.com/oyuncu-res…
very, very good work man, it's pretty awesome to see a design like this come about from the kind of cross-polinization we've been having, that dragon helm especially is a great next step in the warven helmets category, and I really like that you gave a long, detailed description, it helps to understand the thought process (i don't know why more artists dont do it
keep up the good work!
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Hey Turner! Nice to know your thoughts about it! It really means a lot to me.
For this design, the helmet is the part that I think I really succeeded, it is good to know it communicate the ideas well and that you are fond of the design. The orangutan comparison is just great, this part of the helmet was a last minute addition, and the inspiration came from those imperial period roman helmets, I just thought that a little exaggeration of the side plates would give it the grunt that I wanted.
The overall design came from my own old designs on the subject, but I owe you the mouth and eye designs, it is not the same of yours but was heavily inspired by. It is like you set the tone and I went with the flow.
For the crest, I really struggled with this damned dragon, and now that you talk about it, I think some of my rejected designs for it could be better than the one I used. I think I’ll post the leftover of the process; it could be interesting to some.
In fact my reference for the dragon was the Mayan/Aztec statues of Quetzalcoatl, not the oriental dragons, but the teeth is from Chinese ones and that is a strong characteristic of those designs. So I think I failed on this point. Maybe later I may achieve the correct dwarven statue design. It is a process and it sure has room to improve. Thank you for pointing out.
Your points on maille are very interesting. I was doing some visual notes on the subject lately, but for the dwarven armors. Of course I agree with you about elven armor tech, and I have some different ideas to share as well. I will talk more on this subject later, but the topic is so interesting and I think we can share great ideas and thoughts.
In my imagination, the hauberk I draw was the closest thing to a sober and dark armor Turin was able to find in the elven armories. To me, elves are almost obsessed with beauty and decoration, even when trying to be straight forward. (Much like Japanese people in ancient times)
The sword actually pleases me, but the perfect design is this one, a friend from DA already made it: www.deviantart.com/art/Gurthan…
A very sober and aggressive vision of the sword. I really like it.
On mine I just tried to add some historical sense and a design very “elven” at last as I imagine it. The base reference was the late medieval period longswords, as I sense no need to put the weapons, armors, architecture, etc of ME in the same timeline as in our real world ( greek-roman-celtic-norse-medieval,etc). It is very plausible that the better designs belong in the first age than in the third, according to Tolkien’s idea of the older times were better. Besides, if we stick strictly to the info he left us, everybody will be clad in plain maille with a Viking sword in the hand. But as you said, this is just a matter of opinion and I just wanted to explain the idea behind the concept. All in all, I like the possibility of a very different timeline of evolution of the designs if compared to our own. What do you think about it?
And your point about Tattoos really cought my attention. I will love to learn more of what you think about it. My concept was in the opposite direction, because I see tattoos as a very predominant aspect of culture in primitive people.
What I had in mind was Otzi’s tattoos. Remember that ice-age mummy that was found in the 90es? Also almost all the natural mummies ever found had some kind of tattoos (Chinese Caucasian mummies, Peruan mummies, etc). For me it goes along with the idea of the first men being so barbaric and primitive if compared to the elder races. It intrigues me to see you are so opposed to the idea. I will love to see what you think about it too.
As for the criticism about the stiffness of the figure, it is well received, as all of your thoughts, and well pointed, since I am not very happy as how it turned out. In my defense, I say that it was the unfamiliar size of the drawing (A3) that contributed to the outcome, but in fact it is better to just admit it is not a very good drawing in this aspect and make it better in the next one. Again, I think my drafts were better than the final article. It is not easy to achieve a natural tracing like yours, but this is what I am working in lately. Any criticism from you is very welcome.
For the shoulder and maille thing I have to agree with you: all that padding and weight turns any strongman into a blob of steel. But what I had in mind when doing this was the lightweight, form-fitting elven armor, but maybe I screwed that up too. The pelt and cape also contribute to the effect.
It will be very interesting and useful if the artists use to comment more on their art but for me, I see that it is not so easy to expose ideas in English. Also the time is hard to find.
But I think it totally worth it and I am working on it from now on. Again, on that, you were the inspiration.
Thanks for dropping by and leaving your thoughts. See you soon.
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About the tattoos: www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/tatto…
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Epic! I love how you designed his helm, very well done.
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Thank you very much! I am happy with this helm design too
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Thank you very much! Glad you like it!
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Jeez, the amount of details is incredible. What format did you use? Did you manage to get this many details in on an A4 paper?
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This is A3 paper.
The size is good for detailling but proved easier to make anatomy mistakes, and was also time consuming. It is hard on the watercolours too.
I'll try A4 next.
Thanks for your comment
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