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UltimaWeapon13 In reply to Vahnati [2012-05-01 00:24:47 +0000 UTC]

Three reasons, either one could be exactly right.
A: Zuko, despite not seeming so in season one, is a much more focused firebender then Azula, therefore he realized what was happening and fixed it faster.
B: Katara's waterbending is remarkably better in the last episode then in season 1.
C: She could have been bloodbending, rendering her ability to bend null.

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Vahnati In reply to UltimaWeapon13 [2012-05-01 03:02:33 +0000 UTC]

It's still utter BS and we all know it, there simply is no justification for it aside from the fact of happy ending for a happy ending's sake.
A. It wasn't a split-second reaction, Zuko was effectively frozen until the sun came out, then he spouted some rhetoric about Katara rising with the moon, him rising with the sun and thawed himself. To claim Zuko has a better reaction than Azula is simply laughable, see the final battle in The Chase for more on that.
B. I don't care how much better her waterbending got, you can't freeze water any more solid just because you're better at it. Also, her waterbending is a moot point, or at least should have been, given the fact Sozin's effing Comet was blazing overhead. What, is the power of 100 sun's suddenly just a "meh," worthless thing? The idea that any waterbender could beat any firebender, let alone Azula, at a time when they're 100 times more powerful is just a pathetic oversight on the part of the creators.
C. Without a full moon? Wouldn't that be convenient, but then, if she was going to bloodbend, she probably would have done it sooner, I dunno, maybe while she was getting shot at with lighting? No, there was no bloodbending involved, it was pretty clear given Azula's movements that she was completely in control of her own body.

Look, you can throw a thousand worthless justifications my way, but at the end of the day, we all know the only reason Azula lost was because she was the "bad guy," and it was the very end of the entire series. All the bad guys had to lose, no two ways about it. I still personally think it's funny they made her go crazy just to give the good guys a chance x D

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UltimaWeapon13 In reply to Vahnati [2012-05-01 05:16:41 +0000 UTC]

A: I watched The Chase multiple times. Zuko being more focused, realized what happened, and was able to act. Azula was already temperamental, before going nuts. She went nuts, and was astounded she lost whenever frozen. She knew it, and was too wrapped up in that to act prior. Plus, Zuko wasn't frozen completely solid, as you have said. Azula was.
B: It's not freezing it more solid, but keeping it frozen. Her bending improved, which allowed her to freeze it faster then Azula could melt it. And about the Comet thing, while I agree with you, the prior mention of insanity Azula was suffering and the feeling of defeat would clarify that.
C: Bloodbending was at it's strongest during the full moon, but that doesn't mean it was restricted use to the full moon. The why she didn't before is also questionable, though. I'll give ya that. But then again, maybe being completely surrounded by water restricted her ability to firebend, too?

I wouldn't normally fight with ya still, but I need a real good debate.

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Vahnati In reply to UltimaWeapon13 [2012-05-01 19:07:47 +0000 UTC]

If that's the case you've come to the right place.

A. Again, it wasn't a reaction thing, he was given ample time to react to his situation. It was never a "You better get out of this immediately or else," predicament for him. At the end though, I have to concede this because Azula was frozen entirely, without any leeway, while Zuko was first frozen in a bubble that didn't actually constrict his own movement whatsoever, and then frozen in a waterfall that left his head free. I will not, however, concede that Zuko is more focused and has a better reaction than Azula, that I simply cannot do.
B. Her going crazy clearly didn't affect her ability to bend, and if it was a who could freeze faster/who could melt faster battle, then again, Azula easily should have won thanks to the comet. It would be like if Zuko had stomped Katara back at the north pole, as if the full moon simply didn't matter. I just think it's utter garbage, Azula should have been beaten by Zuko, whatever happened to "no bender will stand a chance against us," instead one of the best firebenders in the entire series gets beaten by a lowly waterbender. The series end was a firebender's fight, and that's how it should have stayed.
C. Bloobending can only be done during the full moon, that much is undeniably true. Hama says so herself.

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UltimaWeapon13 In reply to Vahnati [2012-05-01 22:24:57 +0000 UTC]

A: Azula was always more erratic, while Zuko was more aggressive. He fought by overwhelming his enemies with raw power, while Azula drowned them in fire, and if that didn't work, she'd use a nigh indefensible move.
B: I do think that it should have stayed a firebender's fight, but Azula knew Zuko was too on-her-level, something she isn't used to dealing with. So, she pulled the same kind of trick she used when Toph, Aang, Katara, and Zuko had her pinned in a corner; she struck out at the most vulnerable one. And while you may be right, my argument lies in this. It seemed like the comet had to be drawn from to gain it's power. Three times, Iroh, Zuko, and Oozi (I couldn't ever spell his name) inhaled, and let the power be felt through them. Then, the power was with them. Azula did this too, *but* when Katara froze her, it interupted her clarity with it. And it messed with her focus. Cut off her power. If she had re-focused, she probably would have gotten out. *shrugs*
C: Yeah, okay, you're right there.

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Vahnati In reply to UltimaWeapon13 [2012-05-02 00:46:07 +0000 UTC]

A. Erratic? Nay good sir, Azula was always cool, calm and collected, she had every fight mapped out and planned before the first fireball was thrown. True, she drowned them in fire, but only because she could and there was nothing they could do to stop her. You can't say if Zuko were as good he wouldn't have employed the same strategy, any firebender would. Firebending's a highly offensive fighting style, a powerful, non-stop offense is the best way to go. I don't know about the overwhelming his enemies with raw power thing, as it is Zuko was a pretty sub-par firebender for the greater majority of the series. Sure he could beat any generic enemy, but outside of that he wasn't worth much in a fight.
B. At this point we're just theorycrafting, it could have been anything. At the end of the day, she lost because she had to lose. The creators did what they felt was the best thing they could to defeat her, unfortunately it was a little more than flawed. The holes that could be poked into Azula's "defeat" are nearly limitless, but when it's all said and done she was going to lose because, again, the bad guys always lose. Happy endings all around, kudos. It's the same reason Aang "conveniently" recovered his avatar state powers right when he needed it the most. The power of being a good guy = a thousand avatar states and then some. Also invisibility.
C. Glad we could put that to rest ; P

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UltimaWeapon13 In reply to Vahnati [2012-05-02 04:11:56 +0000 UTC]

Uhm, wow. I got nothin' X3
First time someone's beaten me in a debate that I would normally when (this isn't the first time I got into an Avatar debate) :d Good job sir

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Vahnati In reply to UltimaWeapon13 [2012-05-02 18:06:41 +0000 UTC]

Well, to be fair the subject was on my side. That Azula was beaten by Katara during Sozin's Comet just always struck me as a terrible oversight on the part of the creators. We all knew she had to lose, but honestly, there were a thousand (well, maybe not that many, but still) ways it could have ended that would have been more appropriate/acceptable to the fanbase. Well, I can't say that necessarily, I'm sure Katara fans were stoked about it, but we Azula fans were left with a kick in the teeth and a coupon for day old bagels. Not a pleasant feeling to say the least.

For my own part, I applaud you as well good sir. I never imagined anybody could defend that ending so well and honestly, you made me stop to think more than a few times. (Raises tea cup)~cheers mate.

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UltimaWeapon13 In reply to Vahnati [2012-05-02 18:25:47 +0000 UTC]

*raises my own tea cup* To our own respective debate teams X3 And to the victor

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Ishiyaki In reply to Yob3 [2011-06-09 23:23:51 +0000 UTC]

sorry for my bad comprehension >_👍: 0 ⏩: 1