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C-quel In reply to ??? [2011-06-12 15:16:52 +0000 UTC]

Yes, although in this case she's not drawing the lines in PS. She's using MyPaint with an Intuos4 tablet, so the lines really are more a product of her lovely hands. ^^

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TKensum In reply to C-quel [2011-06-12 15:55:16 +0000 UTC]

Wow, that is an expensive one, but a good one, no doubt about it.
I only have a Bamboo first generation (my old buddy )
So to say, she makes the outlining with myPaint and then colours it with PS?

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C-quel In reply to TKensum [2011-06-12 16:22:03 +0000 UTC]

Yep it was a pricey one, but only half the cost of my Cintiq so I didn't mind getting it to her for her b-day (especially since before she used a graphire2, which wasn't too cooperative with MyPaint). Her art quality has exploded beautifully ever since.

And nope, she does the colouring in MyPaint too. ^^
Surprised you want to give PS more credit than it deserves... it really is just an image editor, you know. The fact that people improve its use as a painter is really more testatment of people wanting to use one tool for everything, rather than wanting to use the best tool for a job (without stealing, lol). ^^

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TKensum In reply to C-quel [2011-06-12 17:06:46 +0000 UTC]

You have a Cintiq, that thing with an own screen on the tablet itself... wow, that's something!

And well, I don't like PS very much (not wanting to use it on Ubuntu or anywhere else and expensive), but I know other people often uses PS (the japanese people sometimes uses SAI), so I though she would have used it too (how can I know ). But I'm relieved ^^, I know that Open Source will be better than commercial programs, but you know it

By the way, your favourite is Inkscape, no?

At the end, I'm a little surprised that both of you have some awesome tablets... so does the more expensive wacom tablets really can improve ones drawing? It seems that way you say.

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C-quel In reply to TKensum [2011-06-12 17:58:26 +0000 UTC]

Yep, that's the one and only. Don't really like it because it's so expensive, but I'll tell you why I bought it a little later. ^^

And yes, originally she was a PS+SAI user, although since she's a traditional artist mainly she really didn't like using them much due to the complexity. But before I knew her, it was the only way she knew to make cool digital drawings like that. After we were together for a while, she tried MyPaint due to its smaller download size (remember her net connection is bad), and it stuck since it's so simple and MUCH closer to the way she prefers to draw traditionally.

In the end MyPaint even trumped SAI since she feels MyPaint's painting tools are superior and its complexity less distracting. She still needs Photoshop for advanced editing, but she is interested in learning GIMP a little out of curiosity (and also to do advanced editing directly on ORA files). Too bad the GIMP project is moving too slowly, so I was forced to send her 2.6.11 in my mail package to her last week -- but always glad she's so eager to try new things. ^^

In any event, she's definitely mastered MyPaint now I feel, and can do amazing things with the program -- the MyPaint DA group gallery has tons of her works on there to bring pride to the project.

And I have grown to appreciate MyPaint a lot, especially with the Cintiq, but yes due to my own disadvantage Inkscape is still my flagship program. ^^v

As far as expensive tablets go...

Well in a way I would say yes much the same way as a good hammer does the job better than a cheap hammer (which can break in mid-strike and poke your eye out... ^^: ).

The Inutous4 offers a bigger drawing area and 2000 points of pressure, vs her old graphire2 which had a mini surface area, 100 points of pressure and a loose cable which kept causing the tablet to disconnect from her laptop a lot. So it really was impossible to do digital drawings entirely for her, because the subtleties of hand-drawing simply weren't capturable by her old tablet.

When i got her the Intuous, not only was it powerful enough to faithfully recreate her drawing style, but it was also something of a morale booster to invite her to digitally draw more. Thanks to that plus MyPaint, now she does even her traditional B&W style sketches all in MyPaint too. ^^

As for me, my hand-drawing is HORRIBLE, and traditional tablets aren't really good for me due to my bad hand-eye coordination. I always said that if I could "see" my hand draw what I want to draw on screen, then I could probably give traditional drawing another chance.

And yes, the Cintiq offered me that opportunity, and my hypothesis is correct -- it is MUCH more natural to see what you're drawing then to have that disconnect between screen and hand. The only problem is that the Cintiq is abusively expensive, but considering I really wanted to hand-draw again (my lovey Haya inspired me ^^ ), I made the investment and it really worked for me. ^^

Fortunately there's a whole era of new wireless tablet styluses that may offer the same power as a Cintiq for a lot less. The HTC Flyer is a bad start, but pretty sure others will get it right soon. ^^b

But I will say this...

Art is a purely subjective thing, so even if you can't afford expensive wacom tablets, that doesn't mean you're doomed to not become a great artist. Even with my cintiq, my drawing still doesn't compete with Haya's. And even without SAI and Photoshop (an ultra-expensive program in reality), Haya is still able to create amazing works that beat those of many artists using that combo.

In the end, the main ingredient to a great artist... is the person himself/herself. ^^

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C-quel In reply to C-quel [2011-06-12 23:00:46 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. ^^
Well I'd take it a step further... it's the person himself/herself who has the good or bad DRIVE to draw. I say this because I know a lot of naturally talented artist who simply don't have the will to make the best of their work, and a lot of really poor artists who fight, strategize and train themselves to a more respectable level. If the person is not motivated to apply himself/herself fully to overcome all obstacles, no matter how seemingly impossible they may be, then all the talent and the tools in the world won't do him/her any good. ^^

As for your observation, rather than changing bodies (Ghost in the Shell-style, lol), I rather point out the analogy of transportation.

Say if Getting from home to the store is "drawing", then walking is like drawing by hand, bicycling is like drawing on a cheap tablet, and driving [a car] is like drawing on an expensive tablet. They can ALL potentially get you to your destination, although imagine that the distance from home to the store is your skill level. A person that's naturally talented (like Haya) has the store pretty much at the corner of the street, whereas someone like me has it about 3km away -- not to say it's impossible for me to walk to the store and back, but clearly it takes longer and requires more work.

Bicycling generally is a good, cheap solution for many to make this trip easier and faster. But if you suffer from balance issues, this many not necessarily work. Driving is even faster, but if you're a bad drive this can be very dangerous. Besides which, both bicycling and driving require a LOT more money and time and maintenance to maintain than simply relying on your two legs. Not to mention that walking let's you go more places (pen and paper), whereas you may have a hard time taking your bike everywhere (laptop and USB tablet) and you certainly can't take your car everywhere (laptop and huge tablet with power supply). And then of course you need to spend time learning how to use the bike and car too, which is a whole lot different than walking.

So as you say, if the store is too far, you either have to get used to learning to bike or drive...

...or you spend extra money to find more creative solutions that aren't such a culture shock.

For bicycling you can purchase a trike instead and this removes the need to adjust for balance. For driving, you can just be chauffeured around in a taxi or limo (liken this to using a Cintiq) -- you get all the benefits of driving without having to actually learn it, and as long as you reach your destination the same way, it may be worth the cost. ^^

But of course, all people think differently -- I love being chauffeured (since I hate cars) and hiking, but most people I know hate walking and love driving (even if they're horrible on it and go broke paying for gas and insurance). So even if our analogy makes sense, it's no guarantee people will use it to their benefit. That's where the earlier issue of "drive" or "motivation" comes in.

=================

I'm still a supporter of the Krita project since I believe it is technically superior to SAI and can definitely win over more artists away from piracy and onto the side of FOSS, and right now I'm investing in their documentation drive.

However, until they have the documentation finished and a standalone Windows installer, it's really a non-starter since it only works on the penguin and is a lot more complicated to use (or look at) then MyPaint.

Hopefully these issues will be resolved by the 2.4 release, and certainly by then I hope GIMP will have its new version out too -- combined in their latest incarnations, they can definitely take on SAI and PS. But MyPaint will always be ideal for those who just want to freakin' draw!!

[or "walk", like in my analogy]

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TKensum In reply to C-quel [2011-06-12 19:48:42 +0000 UTC]

Wow, that's a way to describe something ^^
All in all it's the person herself/himself who can draw good or bad, yes also my though.

On paper it's much easier to draw, you're very right, it's sad that you don't have a good hand/eye coordination, but you found your way to draw ^^

Then, more generally, I could say the tablet is more like a switch to another style for one, who was drawing on paper previously, no?

I would say, if someone, who switches to tablet and learn the drawing anew (like haya or me last year ), it's like to switch the body to a much different one and try to... let's say, make a judo move, one normally knows very well. Mostly, it won't work, because the body react differently to your brain's signal, due other weight, body structure, body size, etc., you agree?

So one way is to learn to get along with the body, so to say, learn the drawing with the tablet anew, but this can take very long, depending on your learning capacities.

OR you switch to another, more fitting body, which is more compatible to your brain's signals (or maybe easier to control), so to say, change to another, more fitting tablet, so you can use your "old" skills like always, but this can be rather expensive, if unlucky. The pro is, you don't need to relearn everything.

This is my conclusion for now.

And you're right, myPaint is awesome, it just do what I want *haa...*
And in combination with Gimp, it's unbeatable (well, I don't have any other choices, but I don't need those extreme expensive things, which doesn't even work on my penguin ^^ *well wine is possible but not comfortable, same goes for SAI*)

Right now I have to find out, which tool I should use for drawing (you can see, my Kai outlining was made with "real pencil 10px" provided by GPS, but for the future, it's suboptimal)

And yeah, I can see Haya's power, the drawing is indeed very clean and amazing.

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C-quel In reply to TKensum [2011-06-12 23:01:26 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. ^^
Well I'd take it a step further... it's the person himself/herself who has the good or bad DRIVE to draw. I say this because I know a lot of naturally talented artist who simply don't have the will to make the best of their work, and a lot of really poor artists who fight, strategize and train themselves to a more respectable level. If the person is not motivated to apply himself/herself fully to overcome all obstacles, no matter how seemingly impossible they may be, then all the talent and the tools in the world won't do him/her any good. ^^

As for your observation, rather than changing bodies (Ghost in the Shell-style, lol), I rather point out the analogy of transportation.

Say if Getting from home to the store is "drawing", then walking is like drawing by hand, bicycling is like drawing on a cheap tablet, and driving [a car] is like drawing on an expensive tablet. They can ALL potentially get you to your destination, although imagine that the distance from home to the store is your skill level. A person that's naturally talented (like Haya) has the store pretty much at the corner of the street, whereas someone like me has it about 3km away -- not to say it's impossible for me to walk to the store and back, but clearly it takes longer and requires more work.

Bicycling generally is a good, cheap solution for many to make this trip easier and faster. But if you suffer from balance issues, this many not necessarily work. Driving is even faster, but if you're a bad drive this can be very dangerous. Besides which, both bicycling and driving require a LOT more money and time and maintenance to maintain than simply relying on your two legs. Not to mention that walking let's you go more places (pen and paper), whereas you may have a hard time taking your bike everywhere (laptop and USB tablet) and you certainly can't take your car everywhere (laptop and huge tablet with power supply). And then of course you need to spend time learning how to use the bike and car too, which is a whole lot different than walking.

So as you say, if the store is too far, you either have to get used to learning to bike or drive...

...or you spend extra money to find more creative solutions that aren't such a culture shock.

For bicycling you can purchase a trike instead and this removes the need to adjust for balance. For driving, you can just be chauffered around in a taxi or limo (liken this to using a Cintiq) -- you get all the benefits of driving without having to actually learn it, and as long as you reach your destination the same way, it may be worth the cost. ^^

But of course, all people think differently -- I love being chauffered (since I hate cars) and hiking, but most people I know hate walking and love driving (even if they're horrible on it and go broke paying for gas and insurance). So even if our analogy makes sense, it's no guarantee people will use it to their benefit. That's where the earlier issue of "drive" or "motivation" comes in.

=================

I'm still a supporter of the Krita project since I believe it is technically superior to SAI and can definitely win over more artists away from piracy and onto the side of FOSS, and right now I'm investing in their documentation drive.

However, until they have the documentation finished and a standalone Windows installer, it's really a non-starter since it only works on the penguin and is a lot more complicated to use (or look at) then MyPaint.

Hopefully these issues will be resolved by the 2.4 release, and certainly by then I hope GIMP will have its new version out too -- combined in their latest incarnations, they can definitely take on SAI and PS. But MyPaint will always be ideal for those who just want to freakin' draw!!

[or "walk", like in my analogy]

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TKensum In reply to C-quel [2011-06-13 07:56:49 +0000 UTC]

You're a very experienced one ^^ respect!

This is a very logic analogy you have there (and yeah, my version is something suddenly popped out of my mind and no, I haven't watch Ghost in the Shell yet, nor do I know what it is about )

Your description is that long and good, I don't know what to add or to say, so I leave it as it is ^^


Hmm, I don't know Krita very much, maybe I should give it a try, after all, it requires a complete KDE runtime environment, and that's LAAARGE (well, Ubuntu-user here ^^v)

So therefore I wish for myPaint and Gimp to be better and better.
I think, if one can deal with the complexity or rich functionality of GIMP, he/she is able to be on the same level as one with PS.

After all, as you say, PS is just an image editor like any others (except for it's prize *astronomical!* and their functions *so many... no TOO many, I doubt there is one normal user, who knows 20% or more of the functions in PS "huge exaggeration "*)

And yeah, myPaint is freaky awesome for drawing some random things ^^
But myPaint has one real advantage to SAI or other drawing tools. It has NO limit, you can add as many things as you want, the layer grows with your drawing ^^

AAAnd, walking is nice, I'm the one, who dislike to drive a car or be driven, I prefer walking or ride my bike (independence, yay!)

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C-quel In reply to TKensum [2011-06-14 01:58:21 +0000 UTC]

Hehe, you flatter me. ^___^

Admittedly, the GITS movies aren't particularly good IMHO, but the two TV series are superb! I love the extensive detail in which they showcase future technologies such as full body prosthetics and digital telepathy. ^^

==============

True true, Krita is currently tied to the KOffice/Calligra project, and thus is bogged down by a lot of KDE dependencies. However, they do want to create a more independent install for the 2.4 release, especially since this will make it possible to supply an easy Windows installer (which would definitely help Haya).

Currently they're raising money to aid with the training and documentation portion of this release...

[link]

And in my opinion, with the solid documentation and a streamlined installation base, this project can definitely take off wonderfully. ^^

It's a bit slow compared to the previous fundraiser, but that's probably because this hasn't hit any of the Linux news aggregator yet. Wondering if maybe you might be able to lend a hand there. :3

===============

hehe, true MyPaint does have that infinite canvas, which I'll also point out Haya-chan LOVES. ^^

Bu tI do find a limit... once you export the ORA to GIMP, lol. Believe me, my Garden Scene picture is helluva HUGE and helluva long to load in GIMP, even though it's pretty fast to work with in MyPaint. ^^

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TKensum In reply to C-quel [2011-06-14 12:27:11 +0000 UTC]

But we all know, if one want to be good, it has to be endurance, love and passion (wow, didn't though we would have a talk this long O.o)

=====

Somehow I don't get Krita (2.2.2)... ^^" (currently i.e. I can't find the eraser O.o, and why is OpenGL slower than without it? Very strange...)

And maybe it's just my Notebook, but some GUI functions are very slow. But it has some nice features, like the split screen. I'll take a look further into it and try to install a newer version of Krita. Maybe I find something interesting.

=====

Yeah, I know.. , GIMP is somewhat bloated, therefore it has the Achilles' heel at the load/save and GUI things (the png export can be painfully slow... myPaint can do it in a blink of an eye )

How 'bout add some pixels to your garden scene to complete it's resolution? ^^

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C-quel In reply to TKensum [2011-06-14 22:50:08 +0000 UTC]

Ah yes, 2.2 was still when it was under heavy development Especially for someone like yourself who loves to tinker, I would defnitely look into installing a development release, maybe the one that is being used by AnimTim for the tutorials.

ah, and no way am I gonna load that whole BIG thing in again, just to add in 100 pixels or less. Cropping the pic should do just fine.

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SoraVan In reply to ??? [2011-06-12 09:27:21 +0000 UTC]

Kana imut~

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hayashinomura In reply to SoraVan [2011-06-20 12:47:56 +0000 UTC]

Ya dia memang imut...~XD

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C-quel In reply to SoraVan [2011-06-12 23:04:14 +0000 UTC]

Apa Kai dan Reina imut juga?

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SoraVan In reply to C-quel [2011-06-13 00:27:01 +0000 UTC]

ya~ imut juga~

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C-quel In reply to SoraVan [2011-06-13 00:29:52 +0000 UTC]

haha! Terimakasih! ^.^

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SoraVan In reply to C-quel [2011-06-13 00:35:32 +0000 UTC]

sama2~

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