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Published: 2012-11-12 10:44:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 27141; Favourites: 975; Downloads: 113
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Submitted by - DAS
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Comments: 1177
As a kid, other kids would find out I wasn't religious and say that I would go to Hell for it. There was no animosity from them that I can recall; I think of the discussion with my best friend at the age of six... he was worried, I think. It wasn't a cruel 'you will go to Hell', it was 'but you might go to Hell!' He's an atheist now... which is more than I can say.
Not being religious wasn't a conscious decision. I wasn't raised with it. It never made any sense to me when it was discussed, even when I wanted it to. But... even though I thought the concept was silly, the idea that I could be punished for something I couldn't control terrified me.
Still... Fear is a powerful thing, yes. But I've also seen beauty in religion. I've stood among a hall full of Christians as they sung camp songs together and we moved among each other, praying for each others' well-being, and I had never felt such love for the people around me before. And I had never felt like such a thief in my life, being allowed that experience when none of them even knew I might not believe in God(/s)... but I believe in religion. It's got power. I don't know enough to judge good or bad. That depends on the people involved, I think.
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*correction* "even knew of my separate views. I might not believe in God(/s)... but I believe in religion."
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If God is gonna send me to hell, to be tortured, just because I'm an Atheist, than God must be a very heartless and cruel person.
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My boyfriend is a Christian. I'm an Atheist. I don't think we will be able to live "happily ever after" because of that.
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I am a christian and I think that that is sad someone would say that to their friend then they aren't a t rue friend if they were they would be "praying" for you instead of sayings things like that..
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I'm a Christian and all, but I'm never like that towards anyone who does not believe.
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I'm a Christian and I pray for people.
I never tell them I pray for them because I know they will react like this.
But it's only because I care about them.
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yes that is exactly what I mean!
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I'm agnostic. I feel that there might be a god, there might not. I feel that way because I don't see enough evidence for me to believe in a god, while at the same time, I don't have enough proof to say there isn't. But I mostly feel that way because if I believe, I'm going to believe all the way. I'm going to be completely sure of my beliefs and take every word in the bible literally. Because you can't make exceptions. I cannot trust my god if only some things he says are true to me.
But then, if I believe completely, how could I ever love a god who places doubt and free will in people on purpose and then sends them to hell? Or a step further, purposely sends them to hell, too, because he supposedly creates your story before you're born? How could I ever love a god like that?
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No, no, he doesn't create your story before you're born, he just knows it. He doesn't make some people go to hell and some not, it's their own choice what to believe in life. (I don't believe in predestination, in fact the Bible says nothing about predestination, which is the belief that some people are already destined to go to hell at the time of their birth.)
The only exceptions I believe in is when there is a very young child, if they die they'll go to heaven because they were too little to understand. Or, if someone with a severe mental disability were to die, they'd go to heaven because they weren't ever capable of understanding.
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Aww...I know how you feel...my ex-friend thinks the same thing for me! π: 0 β©: 0
Of course, all of this commentary assumes that god exists ... but if he doesn't, all of this is nonsense, and harmful nonsense at that.
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i'm so so sorry this happened to you, ST. unfortunately, many people of religion make mistakes and say/do things that don't really reflect what they believe or that the religion believes. But I hope you don't completely close yourself off, because not all people of religion fit that stereotype that society views them as. I'll be praying for you
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eh, I'd take fire and demons over clouds and praying any day; so whether this religion is true or not, i'm just fine with being who I am.
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It's incredible so many people not only think it's fine for their so called wise god to send innocent people to hell, they actually applaud. All I feel is overwhelming pity for these people, I can't imagine having such a horrible viewpoint.
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Wow, I honestly have a friend who honestly (and most regretfully) believes I've got a one way ticket to Hell. Because I don't believe at all.
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I find it very sad that the outspoken few twist the idea of religion for everyone else.
Personally, I'm not religious. But I have religious friends and non-religious friends and gay friends, and we all get on just fine because we respect each other. I wish others would see that we dont have to live in this world hating each other.
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Yup. Personally I think any good person shouldn't be tortured. Gay or not. Of any religion. It seems like a pretty cruel deity to make good innocent people suffer because they don't believe in the deity/ies or strictly follow the religion.
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Yeah, doesn't the Bible teach to treat everyone equally and 'love one another'? Not to tell your friend they're going to burn in Hell. Still, I'm never becoming religious and nothing they say can change that, but it's still pretty damn rude
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I have friends like this, but it is very rude for them to say, "Oh, fyi, you're going to burn in hell, but you're still my friend and no offense!" I have friends who go to LGBT club to support the people there, and when asked, "but isn't it against your religion?" they respond, "Yeah, we know all thoe gays and bis are gonna burn in hell, but we think that's their choice, so they should be allowed to get married."
I've had relatives tell me I'm going to burn in hell, and when I get miffed at them for it, they say they're just trying to get me on the right path through fear of hell so I'll be in heaven with them. It's there way of showing they care, so yes it's rude, annoying, and very hurtful, but since they truly believe, you have to undertstand it's there way of showing how much they care, that they care enough to point it out to you. If that makes sense.
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I highly disagree with one telling another that they're going to "burn in hell" for not sharing the same religious beliefs. Oh, so you believe in God? That's great, good for you. They offend others with their religion, but get offended when someone rejects or tries to debate it. I don't understand why it's seems like such a necessity for some people to push their religion on others. My fiancee is christian, but I am not. We don't debate why we should or should not believe in something, we just live and enjoy each others' company. It's not a difficult concept!
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I hate when some christians do that.
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Anyone who would think or say this to you is misrepresenting the Christian belief. I apologize that you have been offended and hurt and hope that you do not choose to look negatively upon the Christian belief as a result of this.
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I never believe that God, being the loving father that so many make him out to be, would leave his children to eternal damnation. Whoever is telling you these things cannot even begin to fathom the full meaning of the true Christian faith (or at least my version and my personal reading of the bible, hell I don't even attend church anymore because I don't agree with organized religion), God is there, but he doesn't take attendance on who 'believes' in him and who doesn't, as long you lead a fulfilling and good life as a human being, you are not cursed to burn in Hell. Anybody who says otherwise is just looking to heighten themselves in the world by belittling others.
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There has never been anything more rude and annoying happen to me than when a religious person tells me they'll pray for me, or they worry about my soul, or they hope I will "come back to god."
Religious people just don't get it. For one, a person's journey to faith has to come from within. You shaming them and trying to scare them with threats of eternal damnation will only push them farther from religion. And for two, most atheists are atheists because they like to THINK about things. There is a reason that there is a strong negative correlation between intelligence and religious belief. There is a reason that more educated people tend to be non-religious. Religion relies on nothing more than blind faith. Science requires thought and the will to combat ignorance. Those who are atheist are atheist because they have taken the time to educate themselves, and they have seen that there is a severe lack of evidence when it comes to the existence of god.
Religious people take their religion lightly--the vast majority are born into their beliefs and accept the religion that has been spoon fed to them by their parents and their church. An atheist has gone out of their way to find the truth for themselves. Religious people like to talk about their religion as "the truth" or "the one true religion." Go read a science textbook. Educate yourself on the theories and principles that make up our existence. Think scientifically. Find out the real truth for yourself. And leave everyone else alone.
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P1: completely agree
P2: pretty harsh but true. The last line is all that matters
P3: first two lines are a little too general (most cases actually tend to be from "finding god" to recover from a dramatic event or lifestyle), the rest make a good point: just keep it to yourselves until you've got proof I highly doubt they ever will . For it isn't our job to prove there is no god, it's theirs to prove there it.
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I think statistics show the vast majority of those who hold religious views hold the same views as their parents. It's why conversion from one religion to another is so rare. A person may go through times of uncertainty in their faith, but chances are if they return to religion, it is to the same religion they had before. It's very difficult to rid yourself of the effects of brainwashing and being indoctrinated into a religion.
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It's come down to becoming a mere tradition passed down through the generations these days and more people are realizing that. I doubt that even a single person abides to every single rule which their religion states. Even the big ten rules the christians must follow are being ignored:
1.Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Response: look at all those who have been converted, mainly from other races; they gave up their old beliefs because some random white person told em' to (PS i'm not racist against whites, for I am white)
2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (aka, you can't believe in other gods/godesses or have ideas of alternative solutions to the creation of existance)
Response: Same answer as before, but this also includes those who have even considered something other than their current god (though that's a good thing)
3.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Response: hate for other beliefs, the witch trials, attacking the gay community... I think they've given their diety the worst name possible
4.Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (seventh day of every week, no work for anybody)
Response: they work shifts on that day, many skip church too
5.Honour thy father and thy mother
Response: some hate their parrents and even wish them dead or injured
6.Thou shalt not kill
Response: the worst of em' all, let us refer to every christian soldier who served and shot somebody, every witch hunter, every KKK member, every gun nut, every murdering phsyco or robber, etc.
7.Thou shalt not commit adultery. (don't bang somebody who's married)
Response: Oh hoho, how many times have we seen this before?
8.Thou shalt not steal.
Response: EVEYBODY has stolen something at least a hundred times in their lifetime, no matter how large or small the object... well, except maybe for most of the Buddhists
9.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (don't blame em' for things they didn't do)
Response: how about falsely sueing your neighbor, hear of that?
10.Thou shalt not covet (don't long for something somebody else has)
Response: how many times have you wanted something your neighbor's got but you don't? Or what anybody else has for that matter, or to be famous or live the perfect life?
Anybody who goes against these responses is obviously in denial.
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Thank you for the demeaning and stereotyped over-generalization. Clearly you have shown how self-educated you are; I can definitely see you went to great lengths to inform and familiarize yourself with all things, and people, religious. Your knowledge is clearly unmatched, your readings of religious texts most thorough and astute. Your wisdom of religious theories and principles is incredible. I bow to your superior religious knowledge. Pray tel, what would we do without stereotypes?
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If you'll notice, most of my comments contained the words "most," "tend to be," and "majority." I accept that there are exceptions to every rule, but outliers don't make the rule any less obvious.
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Ah yes, but you applied MOST of that to atheists. Only once in your comment did you say 'vast majority' in relation to religious types, otherwise, you are unfairly grouping every religious person into one stereotype.
In fact, you are still displaying classic hate behavior, just as a racist would. Consider: A racist says, "There are a FEW black people more advanced than a gorilla." YOU are saying, "There are a FEW religious people that are exceptions to this rule." The words have changed, but not the attitude.
You, good sir, are a bigot, pure and simple. In your eyes all but a handful of people behave in a certain, prescribed way and any deviations from this rule are, as you put it, 'outliers'. I guess there's only 3 colors in your world: Black, White, and Orange.
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An appeal to emotion, and an association fallacy. Well played.
There is a difference between saying a negative, untrue thing about black people, and saying a perceived-negative, true thing about religious people. Do I need to point out the difference to you? As I said in another comment, the negative correlation exists, and it exists without needing your faith. As with any statistic, there are outliers, but that doesn't change the correlation. You are placing a value judgement on fact, not me.
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Backpedal about as you may, this does not change the fact that you are stereotyping ALL religious people with (how generous of you) a 'few outliers.' A person that believes and preaches such stereotypical behavior is, in fact, a bigot, and you have done nothing to prove me wrong. You are judging all religious people to behave the same, with only a few bizarre and unexplainable exceptions.
You, sir, are judging a good chunk of the world's population irregardless of anything except religious belief. You're saying that your perceptions are true -- how very nice, I'm sure they are true to YOU, but that does not mean it necessarily applies to everyone else.
If you did not want to be called out on the obvious bigotry of your personal opinion, then perhaps you should have phrased it more carefully.
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I never backpedaled. I have absolutely zero need to. You can continue to call me a bigot all you like. I'll state it simply: I am judging only in the sense that I am presenting the facts as they are. These are not my perceptions--I had no part in the various studies that have concluded this. If you choose to take offense at the facts, that is due to your own personal issues.
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What studies? What facts have you actually quoted to us, what sources, what professionals? All you have said is that religious people take it on blind faith as it is spoonfed to them by their parents or their church, does this sound familiar to you? I hope it does because you said it. For such remarkable ability to recall facts, you certainly cannot remember your own words. You all but outright called anyone that believes in religion as being STUPID and NON-EDUCATED. You put atheists on a pedestal calling them superior in intellect and education SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE ATHEIST.
You have no facts, no studies, no sources to provide and are merely spouting off on your own bigoted opinion and toting it around like it's a well-known fact. Well excuse ME for being offended when you come out and say that religious people are stupid and have a poor education. Until you cite any facts for your ridiculous claims, you are just one more self-possessed bigot that thinks he knows everything. In fact, you are likely assuming that I, as being religious, am stupid and non-educated or else I would agree with you and THAT is a hideously obvious logical fallacy. If you're as educated as you claim to be, you would know which one.
Clearly there is no reasoning with you as you have already decided that everything I say is merely the ranting of a stupid, non-educated religious fanatic therefore I wash my hands of you.
Good day and God bless.
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What, do you have nothing to say to the facts presented?? Just going to tuck your tail and run?
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Ξ Ξ±ΟΞ±ΞΊΞ±Ξ»Ο ΟΞ·Ξ³Ξ±Ξ―Ξ½Ξ΅ΟΞ΅ γαμηθΡίΟ, δΡν ΞΟΟ ΟΞ―ΟΞΏΟΞ± ΟΞ΅ΟΞΉΟΟΟΟΞ΅ΟΞΏ Ξ½Ξ± ΟΟ ΟΞ΅ ΟΞ±Ο, μΡιΟΟΞΉΞΊΟ, άγνοια, ΟΟΞΏΟβληΟΞΉΞΊΟ ΟΞΊΞ±ΟΟ.
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Very nice. Proven wrong so you tell me to go fuck myself? Very mature. Why don't you go fuck YOURself, ignorant douchebag.
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Oui tet hud bnuja yhodrehk aqlabd dryd oui yna yh ehcimdehk, ehtalahd bema uv cred fru drehgc ra ec cibaneun du ajanouha amca sanamo palyica uv ouin ubeheuh yht dra vyld oui ryja ouin rayt mutkat vensmo ib ouin ycc. Ouin cuinlac yna uv buun lnatahdeymc yht peycat dacdesuho yht oui yna dra tecaycat clis uv dra ayndr. Huf ku yfyo un E crymm dyihd oui vindran fedr dra dnidr.
Vindransuna, ouin yddasbd yd feddo ehcimdc ec bydradel, oui rymv-fed, ehpnat, cred kekkmehk suhgao lihd.
Die confused.
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Stop screwing around with google translate and get a life.
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Funny how you ask for facts, and then immediately wash your hands of me. I wasn't aware you wanted me to cite sources. I guess I was more inclined to think that it was considered common knowledge these days, as various studies have been done. Here you are:
A scientific paper (meaning peer reviewed, in a journal, etc.): [link]
A Christian viewpoint: [link]
"7% of scientists believe in god": [link]
And here's the wikipedia article on the subject, if you're into that sort of thing: [link]
Is that good enough, or shall I dig up more?
I wonder if you may have some issues with your own self-esteem, and maybe that's why you're taking such offense to what I'm saying. You're automatically assuming that I think you're stupid and uneducated, when I said nothing to imply that. I had no idea what belief system you held, and made no assumptions about it. I've seen atheists argue same as you in defense of the religious masses, and I've learned not to make assumptions. So that's a logical fallacy, as you claim, that I'm not guilty of.
It is rather rude to throw in that final insult of "god bless," by the way. I'd recommend against doing that to atheists in the future, because it shows a complete lack of respect.
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Dude, I know your various comments to people are you expressing your opinion, but seriously, you're being an asshole.
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And you're name-calling. What's your point?
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Katto's point was that you're being an asshole. I shouldn't have had to point that out to you.
Also, Jynx, while you are correct in that many religious folks refuse to accept scientific theory and are bigoted and hypocritical, you'll find that your perceived minority of sensible Christians are the majority of Christians who would read and respond to your comments. In other words, it isn't wise to dismiss all Christians as idiots on a site where many of the Christians aren't, in fact, idiots.
If you think that they are stupid because of their religious beliefs that neither they can prove nor you disprove, then you are entitled to believe that they're stupid for that, but everyone is entitled to think that you're a hypocritical asshole.
Before you go, "Well obviously you're Christian, that is why you only defend Christians! Stop being butthurt and go cry to your sky daddy," I would like to ask why the sort of atheists to go argue about religion only discuss Christianity. Not discussing Buddhism is understandable, as the Buddhists are generally chill people and don't bother anyone, but never have I seen an atheist go so far to disprove a belligerent Muslim as they will a moderately vocal Christian.
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Seems he doesn't even care what anyone's point is, he just doesn't want people arguing with him. Apparently I'm a self-righteous dick for...telling him he's self-righteous?
People like him are the reason I don't want to be associated with other atheists...
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There are a great many people like that, unfortunately. They can't take back what they've been doling out.
It didn't occur to me that atheists could have the "don't think we're all like him" situation as well.
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