HOME | DD
cabepfir β Charlemagne VS King Arthur
Published: 2012-02-23 22:16:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 6620; Favourites: 75; Downloads: 54
Redirect to original
Description
The two grandfathers of Medieval EuropeKing Arthur and Charlemagne are the founding figures at the origin of the two main cycles of epic/romance poetry, the Arturian cycle (or matter of Britain) and the Carolingian cycle (or matter of France.) The Carolingian cycle continued to be developed until the beginning of XVII century, producing masterpieces from the Song of Roland to the Orlando Furioso. The Arthurian cycle was rekindled during the XIX century and continues to present days; I'd like to see a similar attention for the Carolingian cycle.
King Arthur and Charlemagne playing chess was a very old idea of mine... dating back some three years at least. I finally did it for the Historical Characters series.
For the first time, I show you something I inked with a tablet!
Related content
Comments: 57
π: 0 β©: 0
I always pictured the Matter of Britain and the Matter of France being the DC and Marvel of their day. Complete with a whole lot of people getting into heated arguments about which was best. "Oh, please, Roland could beat Lancelot into the ground!" "No he couldn't! Roland died from blowing a horn too hard! Lancelot didn't die until he was an old man, so ha!"Β
π: 0 β©: 1
Ahaha, that's a fantastic comparison! Thank you!
π: 0 β©: 0
I'm assuming Arthur is on the left and Charlemagne on the right?
π: 0 β©: 1
Exactly! 
π: 0 β©: 1
Not to mention Arthur's reign was after Charlemagne's.
π: 0 β©: 1
Well, Arthur's historical existence is still a matter of debate, and there are many theories about when he actually ruled (if he existed at all). However, if he existed, he probably led Britain soon after the fall of the Roman Empire, fighting agaist Saxons in the 5th or 6th century AD. So he would have lived *before* Charlemagne, who lived between 740-814 AD.
π: 0 β©: 1
Well, much of the Arthurian Legends establish that King Arthur's greatest Knight, Sir Lancelot du Lac, was a blood descendant of Charlemagne.
π: 0 β©: 1
It's medieval literature. You'll have an easier time discerning proper continuity from Marvel and DC. After all, in one story, Arthur goes to war against the Roman Emperor Lucius, and Rome came many years before Charlemagne.
π: 0 β©: 0
I finished Orlando Furioso very recently and it was awesome! L.Ariosto was quickly listed in myΒ top tier author list
Also You did wonderful job. Lovely and Nice picture.Β
I supposed the guy who with green cape is Charlesmagne but I could be wrong..
π: 0 β©: 1
Congrats for reading the Furioso! Yes, the Carolingian cycle and the OF deserve to be more famous. Well, there was a moment in history when it was the European bestseller!
No, the one with the green cape is Arthur, the old man on the right is Charlemagne (as he's usually described as an old king in the poems - though there are also some about his early years.)
π: 0 β©: 1
yep I noticed Charlemagne is very old man in many Carolingian cycle! But I thought that that would be fleur de lys in the crown.
then again, maybe it is just cross..
π: 0 β©: 1
you are absolutely correct, there are fleur-de-lys in Arthur's crown because I gave him a typical English crown (which featured crosses and fleur-de-lys, since they called themselves kings of France too.) This is anachronistic for Arthur's times, yes, but this wasn't meant to be a philologically correct drawing.
π: 0 β©: 1
That's not a problem at all! Moreover,Β being anachronisticΒ is essentialΒ toΒ medieval Arthurian orΒ Carolingian literature, isn't it?
π: 0 β©: 1
Ps, they got nuthinΒ΄on the spanish greatest, El Cid!
π: 0 β©: 0
The song of Roland has been made available as an Ebook by Paradox for 1.99 along with the new Charlemagne dlc for Crusader Kings 2! Yippie!!!
π: 0 β©: 1
Thanks for th news, I've already read The Song of Roland
π: 0 β©: 0
Erh... Charlemagne was a real king and he really did have knights at his service, called paladins (from Latin comes Palatinus "earl of the Palace", from Palatium Imperial court). It is not a legend. Roland's death at Roncevaux was then turned into a legend, but it started with an historical event.
π: 0 β©: 1
Your previous message seemed to imply that Charlemagne was a legend.
π: 0 β©: 1
Charles (then called "magne" = the Great) became Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire around year 800 AD. It was the first time someone succeeded in recreating a European empire, although not as large as the Roman empire, but large enough to include France, Germany and a part of Italy. Charlemagne was a genius king who introduced lots of political and social renovations; his kingdom prompted a philosophical and cultural renaissance.
At the beginning of his rule, he fought for years agains the Moors (who, at that time, controlled Spain and other parts of Southern Europe.) He tried to invade Spain but was kicked out. During his retreat, his army was attacked by the Moors at Roncevaux, on the Pyrenees. Even if Charles passed safely, a part of his rearguard was crushed and many paladins were killed, among whom a paladin called Roland. The fact inspired the Song of Roland, which is one of the main epic poems of the Middle Ages.
From the Song of Roland onward, the matter of France (the cycle of stories about Charlemagne and his knights, while the matter of Britain was about king Arthur) was super famous in all Europe. Many many poems and novels were told and written about Roland and his companions. It was in fact, for a while, much more famous than the arthurian cycle. (That the arthurian cycle is more famous, now, depends from the fact that in XIX cent. Romantic poets and painters started an arthurian revival.) But consider that for centuries, until the end of XVI century at least, Roland was the protagonist of dozen of tales. Imagine him as the Superman of that time.
So yes, absolutely, the battle of Roncevaux was turned into a legend, and the fictional character of Roland bears little to no connection to the historical Roland beneath, but Charlemagne was absolutely a real and great king.
π: 0 β©: 1
Thank you. I'll take it to an account. I need the influence. As you can see, I faved this picture in Sir Gabriel's Legacy folder. That same folder contains illustrations of classic Old Testament stories because of Sir Gabriel's influence.
Also, I have a DVD about Joan de Arc I could probably watch.
This is the picture of Sir Gabriel himself: monguin.deviantart.com/art/Sirβ¦
monguin.deviantart.com/art/Eleβ¦
He's more of a SPACE fantasy character, though, using a combination of divine influence and futuristic technology to hunt down his enemies. I'm currently working on his story inspired by scripture. He's the Spirit of Justice.
π: 0 β©: 0
If only the matters of France (Song of Roland, Orlando Innamorato, and Orlando Furioso) were as popular as King Arthur.
I want my Bradamant fanart, dammit!
π: 0 β©: 1
Indeed!
Who knows if I'll have the inspiration for a Bradamante fanart, but that's a cool idea!
π: 0 β©: 1
Bradamante's definitely somebody you think would be more popular.
She's like a medieval Samus from Metroid.
(but without all that Other M bullshit).
π: 0 β©: 1
She was definitely popular between 1400-1600 
I didn't know who Samus was. Thanks for the reference!
π: 0 β©: 0
Β Now this is a match for the ages, but all things being equal I'm backing The Wart because bigad I'm British and proud of it!Β
π: 0 β©: 0
I'm currently reading The Carolingians by Pierre RichΓ©--I've always wanted to learn as much as I can about this period in history!
π: 0 β©: 0
Arthur thinks he's going to win, but little does he know that Charlemagne is enacting the first step in his master plan...
π: 0 β©: 1
Ahah - they're full of resources!
π: 0 β©: 0
Thank you so much! 
π: 0 β©: 0
Charlemagne may have been a more successful king, but Arthur won with his legends!
π: 0 β©: 1
Well, the one king existed, the other one didn't
π: 0 β©: 1
I tend to believe that there could be some historical truth behind King Arthur's legend - an historical figure upon which the legend was invented, of course quite different from the King we know, but a chief of some sorts.
π: 0 β©: 0
I've read just about every version of the Arthurian legend and the Song of Roland. I haven't read a lot of the Carolingian cycle--anything good to recommend? Oh, and I love your portrayal of the two kings!
π: 0 β©: 1
I fear there's not much of Carolingian cycle in translation - also because there are few contemporary novels retelling it. The founding piece is of course the Song of Roland, and there are a *lot* of poems written in Old French in this cycle, which also began to be split in subdivisions (works about the war against the Moors; about domestic fights between rebellious barons and the king; etc). But I suppose that many of these works are now matter for specialists and that they cannot be found in translation. But you can find an introduction here [link] for example. Or look at this: [link]
The cycle had an enormous fortune in Italy, and we've written about Roland and Olivier, Renaud and Ogier for centuries. Our own masterpieces are the Orlando innamorato (Roland in love) and Orlando Furioso (The Frenzy of Roland) which are both translated into English. [link] [link]
Of recent works, The Nonexistent Knight by Italo Calvino is set in Charlemagne's camp. I've also read a fabulous retelling of the death of Roland in Carlo Magno pensava a ben altro, but that's in Italian. I'm sorry!
π: 0 β©: 1
Thanks for the links! For some reason the Carolingian cycle has been neglected by English writers!
π: 0 β©: 1
You're very welcome! I hope that you find something interesting.
π: 0 β©: 0
amo la stilizzazioneeeee *__* ed il concept... bravissima
π: 0 β©: 1
We just read a part of the Song of Roland in my French class. It was really good. Anyway nice picture
π: 0 β©: 1
The Song of Roland is awesome! Also because it gives also the POV of the Moors. Great stuff.
π: 0 β©: 1
| Next =>